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Offline Doc

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Is prayer prescribed?
« on: November 09, 2011, 03:39:18 PM »
Aslamalaykum all,

I have a question so that I can help my own understanding better.

Is there any mention in the Quran that regular prayers in the day have been 'prescribed' for certain parts of the day or is it a recommendation for Muslims as in 'establishing prayer'? I am not sure if any punishment is given in the Quran for not establishing it.

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Is prayer prescribed?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 08:10:34 PM »
Dear Doc,

Salamun Alaikum and welcome to the forum.

With regards to 'salata' (prayer), verse 4:103 makes use of the Arabic 'kitaban mawquta' which refers to 'prescribed' times. Although 'waqt' from which 'mawqutun' is formed means a state, fixed time or a period of time,  the word 'kitaban' means prescribed / enjoined / appointed / inscribed what is written or ordained.

It has a similar construct as used in the phrase "Kataba ala nafsihirahma" where God says he has inscribed / ordained / prescribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy as in 6:12 and 6:54

Therefore there is clear mention in the Quran for 'salat' (prayer) to be enjoined / prescribed on believers and at specific times / periods of the day.

You are correct, there are no direct punishments that are mentioned for missing prayer (as in what the retribution for missing a certain prayer would be). However, God has asked believers not to abandon / neglect prayer (19:59-60) and in light of verse 4:103 above, those who are not mindful of their prayers (for one reason or another) are rebuked (107:4-5). In contrast, the references to 'establish prayer' are numerous in the Quran.

I hope that helps.

Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline fadhly

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Re: Is prayer prescribed?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2011, 04:24:27 AM »
With regards to 'salata' (prayer), verse 4:103 makes use of the Arabic 'kitaban mawquta' which refers to 'prescribed' times.

I think 'prescribed' = kutiba,

and

Although 'waqt' from which 'mawqutun' is formed means a state, fixed time or a period of time,  the word 'kitaban' means prescribed / enjoined / appointed / inscribed what is written or ordained.

'kitaban' = prescription

Offline fadhly

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Re: Is prayer prescribed?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2011, 04:46:02 AM »
Therefore there is clear mention in the Quran for 'salat' (prayer) to be enjoined / prescribed on believers and at specific times / periods of the day.

In light of 17.78, the prayer is establised continously.

Quote
Al-Isra (The Journey by Night)

Aqimi alssalata lidulooki alshshamsi ila ghasaqi allayli waqurana alfajri inna qurana alfajri kana mashhoodan

17:78 (Y. Ali) Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading: for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.

Salam.

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Is prayer prescribed?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 06:11:49 AM »
Salamun Alaikum Fadhly,

Welcome to the forum :-)

I do concur with you with regards your first post. However I'd like to clarify.

My usage of 'prescribed' in quotations and bold was a direct response at the first question by 'Doc' who made use of the term. I made use of 4:103 only to show that such a prescription was supported by the Quran.

However, you are correct to suggest 'prescribed' as a correct rendition of the verb 'kutiba' (as in kutiba alaikum 2:180 - prescribed for you). I would also understand this to be formed from the verb 'Kataba' as the ground form (form I) in the perfect state and passive voice.

You are also correct to suggest 'prescription' as a correct rendition of 'kitaban / kitabun' as in 4:103 or 8:68  which I understand to be formed from the noun masculine 'Kitab'.

With regards 17:78, I think the discussion centres on the interpretation of whether to understand the sun's decline (Duluk-e-Shams) as that from the zenith (After noonday) or as a decline as in at sunset.
 
Classical authorities pick up the discussions very well and also give variant meanings to the root word D-L-K one of which is a reference to sunset.

I am not sure whether I would accept the proposition that one prays (salaat) continuously from the Zenith, all throughout the day and till the darkness of the night.

That is of course unless one wants to argue as do those that align themselves to Dr. Shabbir's school of thought that salaat is not prayer and is a Divine system. (A debate which has been well exhausted and to which I have contributed and contested on other forums)

But as I can't ascertain that from your post, I'll reserve judgment completely.

Thank you for your post and valued contribution.

Joseph.





'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline fadhly

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Re: Is prayer prescribed?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 04:10:17 AM »
Classical authorities pick up the discussions very well and also give variant meanings to the root word D-L-K one of which is a reference to sunset.

I am not sure whether I would accept the proposition that one prays (salaat) continuously from the Zenith, all throughout the day and till the darkness of the night.

The root word D-L-K is also reference to sun rise
( http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000072.pdf ):

Quote
It is  said in [one of the works entitled] the "Nawadir el-Aarab," that dalakatialshshamsu signifies The sun became high

Using that meaning and regard 17.78, people not sleep in mid-day 'aqimi alssalata' from sun rise (wake in the morning) till the darkness of the night (sleep in the night).

People sleep in mid-day 'aqimi alssalata' in the first end of the day, sleep in mid-day, then 'aqimi alssalata' in the second end of the day and zulafan mina allayli (till sleep in the night).
 
Quote
Hud (The Prophet Hud)

Waaqimi alssalata tarafayi alnnahari wazulafan mina allayli inna alhasanati yuthhibna alssayyiati thalika thikra lilththakireena

11:114 (Y. Ali) And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night: For those things, that are good remove those that are evil: Be that the word of remembrance to those who remember (their Lord):

'Aqimi alssalata' is a long life, and live not include sleep,

Quote
Maryam (Mary)

WajaAAalanee mubarakan ayna ma kuntu waawsanee bialssalati waalzzakati ma dumtu hayyan

19:31 (Y. Ali) "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

because sleep = die.

Quote
Az-Zumar (The Groups)

Allahu yatawaffa alanfusa heena mawtiha waallatee lam tamut fee manamiha fayumsiku allatee qada AAalayha almawta wayursilu alokhra ila ajalin musamman inna fee thalika laayatin liqawmin yatafakkaroona

39:42 (Y. Ali) It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.

Salam.


Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Is prayer prescribed?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 05:17:21 AM »
Peace brother Fadhly,

I am not sure whether I completely follow nor concur with the point that you are trying to drive with the selective interpretations you are using. I don't think you can deny the interpretation that I have also advanced. I'm not sure I fully understand or can reconcile your interpretation with the all the relevant Quranic verses.

Either way, thank you for your opinion.

Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell