Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Migration of Prophets

Offline Sardar Miyan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Migration of Prophets
« on: December 26, 2012, 01:41:46 AM »
17:1 Glorious is He Who initiated the migration of His servant by night, from the Sacred Masjid to the Remote Masjid whose environment We did bless that We may show him some of Our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer. [20:23. Signs that the Divine System will begin to prevail from there]
17:2 (Recall that Moses had to migrate from Pharaoh's Kingdom to the Sinai Peninsula.) We gave Moses the scripture and We appointed it a Guide to the Children of Israel, saying, “Choose no guardian besides Me.”
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In these two   Ayaat Allah describes the migration of Prophet Mohammad SA & Prophet Moses SA.In the Aya 17:2 Allah gave scripture to Moses after migration.In the migration of Prophet Mohammad from Sacred Mosque to Masjid Aqsa at night. Though I know that Masjid Aqsa was not built at the time of Prophets life time but why Allah says Masjid Aqsa instead of telling Madina? Secondly, what kind of " Signs" Allah wanted to show in Masjid Aqsa or Madina? Prophet had to migrate due to kuffar of Mecca for safety to lead a normal life but Allah's description " To show our sighns"is not understood .Can any brother or Bro JAI through some light please?Thanks
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline HOPE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 05:20:31 AM »
Salaam,

whose environment We did bless that We may show him some of Our signs

After God protected Abraham from the fire, people developed other strategies to kill him.  God inspired him to immigrate to the blessed lands with his nephew Lut  where they lived peacefully and raised new generation of believers. 21:69-73.
Area is blessed by God sending Israilite nabis there.

 Tradition tells us that prophet Muhammad  received spiritual ascendancy by receiving the blessings of the prophets.  I am sure the hadith commentaries are exaggerated yet there must be some truth in it.  Prophet Muhammad, the seal of prophets, being greeted by his predecessors whom they shared the same office over the ages.

Peace
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline HOPE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 01:22:00 PM »
Peace Sardar,

I do not understand what you mean by migration?  I believe it means seasonal relocation.  Immigration is probably what you wanted to use yet these verses are not talking about that either.  17:1 is usually interpreted as a night journey of the Prophet Muhammad in a vision, Miraj.  See also the verses17:60 and 93.

53:18 He saw some of the greatest signs of his Lord.
 Muhammad experienced God visually and auditorially.  He could since God controls hearing and the sight  10:31.

The connection between this verse and the next could be that the Prophet Musa could not see the God.  7:143. 
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Truth Seeker

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 08:29:23 PM »

Salaam All,

This is an interesting topic because we are given very little detail about the experience that the  prophet ( pbuh) had. The how and why is not mentioned as this was his own spiritual experience.

However I think that he was unable to see God as Hope says because the Quran confirms that it is impossible for a human to do so. Prophet Moses (pbuh) desired it but was not given his wish and also the Quran states in 42.51 :


"And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a partition or that He sends a messenger to reveal, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise."

Offline HOPE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 10:24:59 PM »
peace Truth Seeker,

I agree but this was a vision, he did not use his physical eyes.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline HOPE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 01:43:01 AM »
Salaam,

17:60 We told you that your Lord encompasses mankind. We granted the vision which We showed you, as well as the tree that is cursed in the Quran, only as a test for mankind. We warn them, but this only increases their insolence.

 This is a test because God knew his opponents would not believe  and would laugh at such a vision,  since God encompasses mankind in His knowledge.  Maybe he was shown the tree of zaqqum, the  fruit of which is eaten by sinners 37:62; 56:52

All these signs increase their transgression.

17:93 And we shall never believe in your Ascension unless you should bring down on us a scripture which we may read
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Sardar Miyan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 05:52:15 AM »
Bro Hope I am not telling 17:1 is about Meraj, which is as per Secondary Sources the Prophet was taken up heavans to show Allah's signs. I just wanted to know what kind of Signs Allah wanted to show to  Prophet on his migration to Madina?Secondly why Allah used Masjidil haram instead of Mecca and Masjid Aqsa instead of Madina because it was migration from one city to another one.
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline HOPE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 01:06:52 PM »
Peace Sardar,

Quote
Bro Hope I am not telling 17:1 is about Meraj, which is as per Secondary Sources the Prophet was taken up heavans to show Allah's signs. I just wanted to know what kind of Signs Allah wanted to show to  Prophet on his migration to Madina?Secondly why Allah used Masjidil haram instead of Mecca and Masjid Aqsa instead of Madina because it was migration from one city to another one.

Brother, I have no idea what kind of signs Allah wanted to show to the Prophet on his migration to Madina.  Please give me the verse numbers.

I know God wanted to show some of His signs when the Prophet was transported one night from Makkah to Jerusalem whose precincts have been blessed.  17:1
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Truth Seeker

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2012, 12:47:49 AM »
peace Truth Seeker,

I agree but this was a vision, he did not use his physical eyes.

Salaam,

Do you mean that he 'experienced' God through the visions he was shown or that he actually saw God in a vision as the latter is not possible.


Thanks

Offline Truth Seeker

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2012, 01:02:14 AM »
Bro Hope I am not telling 17:1 is about Meraj, which is as per Secondary Sources the Prophet was taken up heavans to show Allah's signs. I just wanted to know what kind of Signs Allah wanted to show to  Prophet on his migration to Madina?Secondly why Allah used Masjidil haram instead of Mecca and Masjid Aqsa instead of Madina because it was migration from one city to another one.

Salaam,

Please can you tell me where you get the understanding that Masjid Aqsa refers to Medina. The reference is to a place which has been blessed. Please see:


Quote
The Quranic use of the term 'Blessed' to signify a land that is blessed has always been reserved for localities around the holy land;
 
For example, some terms used in the Quran.
 
(1)   Barakna hawlahu
 
017.001 - Masjid Aqsa
 
(2)   Barakna fiha
 
007.137 - Blessed lands for the Children of Israel
021.071 - Prophets Abraham and Lot (pbut) delivered to the blessed lands
021.081 - Wind flowed for Solomon on the blessed lands
034.018 - Saba and cities in-between
 
(3)   Mubarakan
 
003:096 - The first house that Prophet Abraham (pbuh) built
 
The Quran never makes use of the term 'barakna' to describe the sanctuary at Makkah, which is normally referred to as 'Masjid Haram' (Prohibited / inviolable mosque / sacred mosque) or the Kaaba which is present within its bounds.

and

Quote
(6)    IN IT ARE ‘SIGNS’
 
Verse 3:97 connects with 17:1. Note both verses make mention of ‘sign’s (ayatina) existing at these locations
 
003:097
“ In it are Signs (Arabic: Ayatun) manifest; (for example), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to God,- those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith, God stands not in need of any of His creatures”
 
017:001
“ Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque (Arabic: Masjid Aqsa (in Jerusalem)) of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs (Arabic: Ayatina); surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing”
 
If one is to compare these two verses then the ‘signs’ are at Jerusalem where one would also find the station of Prophet Abraham. (pbuh)
 
Maqaam-e-Ibraham at Makkah claims to bear the 'foot imprints' of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) from nearly 4000 years ago. This is quite an interesting claim but not without some academic incredulity.
 
Have these footprints actually been preserved for nearly 4 millennia without the knowledge of anyone from the previous readers of the scriptures? Or are they a later institution to give the site validity as the original sanctuary of Prophet Abraham? (pbuh)
 
It is important to remember, adherents of the previous scriptures were present in the localities of the Hijaz at the time of revelation. However, no such claim seems to have found currency with either the Jews or the Christians.
 
However, an older Jewish tradition claims the Foundation stone (Hebrew: Even haShetiya) at the site of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem to be the location where Prophet Abraham (pbuh) nearly sacrificed his son Isaac. (pbuh) (Please see related article [3] below). This still remains one of the holiest sites in Judaism.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/makkah%20bakkah%20FM3.htm


It points to the holy lands and not Medina.



Offline HOPE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2012, 02:26:08 AM »
Dear Truth Seeker,

Quote
Do you mean that he 'experienced' God through the visions he was shown or that he actually saw God in a vision as the latter is not possible.

I believe this is a spiritual journey of the Prophet  of which we do not know anything about it.  The brief allusion in 17:1 was elaborated and embellished in the course of the centuries.  This is my official version.    The rest was my loud musings.  The verse ends with two of the 'beautiful names'   all-hearing, all-seeing. The experience may include sound and sight.  Secondly in dreams I see things without the use of my eyes.  The soul sees and experiences.  As you have mentioned before, this is his journey, we cannot experience it regardless how much we want it.

Experience of the journey to God and into His depths is expressed in a hadith where the Prophet admonishes his companions: "Do not prefer me to Prophet Yunus because my journey is into the height and his journey is into the depths."  In my opinion, this is a profound saying.  Since His throne embraces the whole universe, God can be experienced anywhere and everywhere.


That's all I know.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Sardar Miyan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2012, 11:49:51 AM »
Bro Truth Seeker  Masjid Aqsa was not constructed during the time of Prophet but after his death .Even when Hazrat Umer went to Jeruslam the Christian chirf asked to pray in a Church but he refused saying Muslim may convert Churches as Masajid. How can the Prophet go to Jerosalam ( Masjid Aqsa) so long by night  to see Allahs signs? I just wanted to know as to what kind of Signs Allah would show there? At this stage of discussions I request Bro Joseph to please offer his views Thanks
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline HOPE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2012, 12:21:15 PM »
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline sahibul

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 11:19:52 PM »
Salam,

You really want to know what Prophet Muhammad saw?

Well, he saw something to make him recite this:

"My Lord, my people have deserted the Quran." (25:30)

He was also the vision of himself as a test for mankind as evidenced by this verse.

And when We told you that your Lord encompasses humanity, We granted the vision, which We showed you as a trial for humanity, and the Cursed Tree in the Quran. We put fear into them, but it only increases their transgression.  (17:60)
Bilal Muhammad

We informed you that your Lord fully controls the people, and we rendered the vision that we showed you a test for the people, and the tree that is accursed in the Quran. We showed them solid proofs to instill reverence in them, but this only augmented their defiance.  (17:60)
Rashad Khalifa

The Quran is right again. Prophet Muhammad, particularly the hadiths which "they" attributed to him, has become the biggest test among the majority of "muslims".

Subhanallah.

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: Migration of Prophets
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2012, 01:16:25 AM »
Bro Truth Seeker  Masjid Aqsa was not constructed during the time of Prophet but after his death .Even when Hazrat Umer went to Jeruslam the Christian chirf asked to pray in a Church but he refused saying Muslim may convert Churches as Masajid. How can the Prophet go to Jerosalam ( Masjid Aqsa) so long by night  to see Allahs signs? I just wanted to know as to what kind of Signs Allah would show there? At this stage of discussions I request Bro Joseph to please offer his views Thanks


Dear brother Sardar,

May peace be with you.

'Aqsa' is simply a description, an adjective that describes something which is far away. For example, please note the expression 'makanan qasiyyan' (a remote place) in 19:22 or 'bil'udwati-lquswa' (on the farther side) in 8:42, or as nouns in 'aqsa-l'madinati' (farthest end of the city) in 28:20 or 36:20.

Therefore, 'masjid al-aqsa' was simply a reference the contemporaries of the Prophet knew and referred to imply a particular holy precinct at a distance / far away. The fact that later caliphs may have built a mosque / another mosque by the same name on a similar location does not negate that they are the same place. They could have easily named a place based on what they thought the Quran was referring to.

Furthermore, as mentioned in some excerpts already provided by Truth-seeker from some of my own articles, the Quranic use of the term 'Blessed' to signify a land that is blessed has always been reserved for localities around the holy land. The Quran never makes use of the term 'barakna' to describe the sanctuary at Makkah, which is normally referred to as 'Masjid Haram' (Prohibited / inviolable mosque / sacred mosque), or the Kaaba which is present within its bounds, or any place such as Madinah.

There is absolutely no warrant in the Quran to consider 'masjid-al-aqsa' as referring to a location in Madinah.

As to what signs were shown, once again I would refer you to Truth-seekers quote which is taken from my article which is obviously a view I subscribe to.

In the end, I humbly feel that we need to clear the noise that oft emanates from stories that are sometimes conflated with this verse and those 'Quran-centric' voices that provide elaborate interpolations without any Quranic warrant and accept the clear narrative of verse 17:1.

The Prophet was simply taken on a night journey, possibly spiritual (given the distance of the holy lands from Makkah) from one location to another where he was shown God's signs. This was clearly a test for those with him and any intricate details which have not been expounded by the Quran have no relevance to believers today.

Of course, there are many stories linked to this night journey [1]. However, from a Quranic perspective, these are based on extraneous sources without any Quranic warrant.

Please let us stay with clear verses which are meant for the guidance of believers.

I hope this helps, God willing.
Joseph.

REFERENCES:

[1] THE NIGHT JOURNEY - ISRA AND MI'RAJ
http://quransmessage.com/articles/lailatul%20miraj%20FM3.htm


 
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell