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Offline Mubashir

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Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« on: March 30, 2013, 02:51:01 PM »
Dear All, Salaam

We have a whole "industry" running on future predictions of the blessed Nabi (S). Does the Quran support him having knowledge of future events?

We have people waiting for Mehdi and Eesa, Mujaddids at the start of each century; prediction of wayward scholars misleading the Ummah;  Arabs building skyscrapers; Quran aloners,  Dajjal, etc. etc. A new sect of Ahmedis claiming to be true and only Muslims was born based on such predictions. Each sect find something in predictions to justify their existence.

Can someone provide evidence from the Quran proving that the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events? Thanks.

Online Joseph Islam

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2013, 02:57:37 PM »
Dear brother,

May peace be with you.

There is a post that I recently shared which was acknowledged by yourself. Verses were clearly shared in this post.

http://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/580892221923162

I am sure you already know where these extraneous beliefs emanate from.

Regards
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Mubashir

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, 03:24:30 PM »
Thanks Brother Joseph!! God bless.

Offline Mubashir

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2013, 04:43:08 PM »
Dear Brother Joseph, is the following verse a correct interpretation of the Arabic?

3:179 [Asad] It is not God's will [O you who deny the truth] to abandon the believers to your way of life: [and] to that end He will set apart the bad from the good. And it is not God's will to give you insight into that which is beyond the reach of human perception: but [to that end] God elects whomsoever He wills from among His apostles. Believe, then, in God and His apostles; for if you believe and are conscious of Him, a magnificent requital awaits you.

Some hadith believers quote the above to prove that the blessed Nabi was given the knowledge of the unseen/future/hidden.

Thanks.

Online Joseph Islam

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2013, 06:32:05 PM »
Dear Mubashir,

May peace be with you.

Yes, it captures the nuance of the verse pretty well.

Ultimately, the verse clearly states that God chooses to part knowledge of the unseen to his chosen ones in the capacity of 'messengers' (rusul) if He so wills.

The Quran is replete with information from ancient history and future events such as descriptions of the Last Day and conversations that will be held on the Day of Reckoning that Prophet Muhammad could never have known unless God had imparted this information to him by way of revelation in his capacity as a messenger.

In my humble view, to take this verse to support claims which only exist in extraneous sources is unwarranted from a Quranic perspective.

I hope that helps, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2013, 11:23:19 PM »
Salam All As in the case of Azwaje Mutharath the Prophet was asked by one of his wives " who told you" on which he said I think "My Lord"So such intutions or inspiration was given to him which he may or may not reveal to Ummah.Hadithis will tell so many things the Prophet was supposed t o have said.
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Online Joseph Islam

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 12:01:10 AM »
Dear Sardar,

May peace be with you.

In my humble view, we need to keep separate 'future and past knowledge of the unseen' and 'inspirations and inclinations' which humans receive in the moment. The latter does not sanction the need for the Ahadith corpus as a ‘religious source’ of guidance in conjunction with the Quran.

Please kindly see the following Q&A thread where the matter you have shared is discussed.
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=97.0

Regards,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline optimist

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 10:33:05 AM »
Aa' ssalamu alaikum dear brother joseph islam,

Since I did not clear some points earlier in one of our earlier discussions  let me post a few comments.  I do not want to get into further discussion or arguments with you on this issue.  You may post, if you deem proper to do so, your comments to clarify your position.  I shall not be making any further comments.   

Firstly, I would appreciate your kind attention to the complete "inspiration" given to the mother of Moses.

"And We inspired the mother of Musa: ”“Suckle him (Musa), but when you fear for him, then cast him into the river and fear not, nor grieve. Verily, We shall bring him back to you, and shall make him one of the Messengers

This is an inspiration detailing many facts and circumstance and I do not think it can be linked to just putting a thought, 'showing' something or in some way 'aided', etc.   We had discussed the issue earlier and when I told you there is the possibility of a messenger conveying the instructions and the news, you had asked me to name the messenger who conveyed inspiration to the mother of Moses.  I did not directly answer this question at that stage.  We do not know and  maybe it is not mentioned in the Quran  who was the messenger because it is not important.   As you know, Prophet Shoaib was a messenger sent during that period and many scholars believe the father-in-law of Moses was  prophet Shoaib.   And may be there could be another messenger at that time whose name is not mentioned in the Quran. The possibility of a messenger conveying the good news is confirmed by the fact that Quran also using the same language “And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in me” (5:111).  Here it is clear that the disciples of Jesus were inspired through Jesus.

Moreover, in the verse it says “awhayna” to the mother of Moses.   If you link the term “awhayna”  with the incident prophet involved,  it would mean there is CLEAR AND OBVIOUS Wahi outside the Quran to prophet which is not correct.   The Quran does not support any outside revelation to prophet other than what is mentioned in the Quran. 

This is the only thing I want to state on this issue.  The question of whether prophet had received any other revelation outside the Quran we shall discuss at some other stage under a different post. 

Regards,
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

Online Joseph Islam

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Re: Did the blessed Nabi had knowledge of future events?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 02:34:22 PM »
Dear brother Optimist,

May peace with you too  :)

You kindly share:

you had asked me to name the messenger who conveyed inspiration to the mother of Moses.  I did not directly answer this question at that stage.  We do not know and  maybe it is not mentioned in the Quran  who was the messenger because it is not important.   As you know, Prophet Shoaib was a messenger sent during that period and many scholars believe the father-in-law of Moses was  prophet Shoaib.   And may be there could be another messenger at that time whose name is not mentioned in the Quran. The possibility of a messenger conveying the good news is confirmed by the fact that Quran also using the same language “And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in me” (5:111).  Here it is clear that the disciples of Jesus were inspired through Jesus.

With respect dear brother, I would beg to differ. I think the question was very relevant in the context it was asked. However, as can be seen in your response, it cannot be answered from a Quran's perspective. With respect, this is the reason I also find that you have had to lean to extraneous Islamic secondary sources to support your case which even from your Quran-centric perspective, would be academically unwarranted.

Furthermore, there is no Quranic proof for your statement regards the father-in-law of Moses. [1]

I would respectfully find it improper that as you profess to follow a Quran only method that you are now making use of extra sources to support your case.

Further regarding your statement "Here it is clear that the disciples of Jesus were inspired through Jesus.", I would once again humbly differ. What you are presenting is an interpretation / interpolation at best. That is not what the Arabic text says.

You also share:

Moreover, in the verse it says “awhayna” to the mother of Moses.   If you link the term “awhayna”  with the incident prophet involved,  it would mean there is CLEAR AND OBVIOUS Wahi outside the Quran to prophet which is not correct.   The Quran does not support any outside revelation to prophet other than what is mentioned in the Quran. 

I feel our difference in theological perspective is highlighted aptly in the comment you have kindly shared. I accept that 'awhayna' is a method which God uses to communicate with His Creation. There are different types and I do not conflate an inspiration for the purposes of 'revelation' with for example, general inclinations / suggestions (42:51). I also do not conflate these inspirations with inspirations which for example, 'bees' might receive (16:68) or the wider heavens may receive to carry out particular functions (41:12). There are different types.

I respect that you may have a totally different stance and do not accept the different types of inspirations that Creation can possibly receive.

But we can always agree to disagree. I note your comment "I shall not be making any further comments.", which I duly respect and trust that you will honour.

I feel we have both exhausted our perspectives on this issue and I'm sure respected readers will draw their own conclusions.

Please let us respectfully leave at that dear brother.  :)

Regards,
Joseph.


REFERENCES

[1] Q&A - Schuaib the father in law of Musa?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=293.msg925#msg925
[2] UNDERSTANDING VERSE 42:51 - WHO CAN RECEIVE 'WAHI'?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/wahi%20FM3.htm
[3] HOW DID GOD'S AGENTS (PROPHETS & MESSENGERS) RECEIVE INSPIRATIONS?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/inspiration%20FM3.htm

'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell