The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?

[hicham9]

Hassan: Exactly. The Quran is not saying that the planet itself is flat. Besides, nearly all celestial solid bodies the size of planets are spherical. They have to be, because gravity pushes them into that configuration. They couldn't exist otherwise, with the forces of gravity at work.

Nil but speculation and wishful thinking !

Hicham9: I can see that you are never, ever going to be convinced. You have rejected all of our evidence and used numerous logical fallacies in your arguments. You still have no evidence to back up your claims. You provided pictures, but you yourself say that pictures can be edited and falsified. You told us the Quran supports geocentrism and a flat earth, but this was due to a mistranslation, which we corrected. You have no more ground to stand upon. From my understanding, this absurd "debate" is over, since you refuse to see the obvious. Well, we tried our best to convince you. We cannot do anything more.

What you fail to grasp is that i've been a brainwashed heliocentrist like yourself for over two decades, ergo. If you think you're the only who's been indoctrinated by the schooling system and has a tv at home, then think again! I did not divorce "heliocentrism" and endorse geocentrism out of a whim, my lady, but for lack of basis in reality.

Not only have i revealed a definite quranic passage in support of a planate earth (i still have more), but i've also provided genuine, undistorted photographs and stable raw footages capturing the stationary flat earth from a high altitude at wide angle. Furthermore, scientific experiments detect no curvature at ground level (See experiments conducted by Parallax in Earth Not a Globe, &c.), and mind you, the surface of every body of water is perfectly flat. (See experiment conducted by Alfred Russel Wallace and John Hampden, described in Schadewald's publications, &c.) !!!

سلام

[good logic]

Peace mia ,Hassan.
Put your feet up while you are taking a break from posting.
I just wanted to share this information with you.. Relax and enjoy watching these clips about our solar system and the relationship between the sun,moon and earth,:
1- the earth rotation is not simple:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI

2- More amazing facts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcQ5JZJ59g8

GOD bless.
Peace.

[samson]

I want to clarify: THE QURAN DOES NOT EXPLICITLY STATE THAT THE EARTH GOES AROUND THE SUN. Neither does it explicitly state that the Earth is round, unless you consider the meaning of the word "dahaha" to  be "egg-shaped". It does not explicitly state any of this.

And it shouldn't. It is not a science book. It is religious scripture. It neither supports the geocentric theory or denies it. The Arabs believed in the geocentric theory at the time of revelation. The Quran didn't aim to change their views on science, because if Muhammad started saying the Earth was round and went around the sun, the Arabs would have called him a big liar. The Quran provided a neutral position on this issue, and there is wisdom behind this.

Sorry, but I would disagree. The Quran makes statements about our physical universe - things that can be proven/disproven by science. I think there's very little about the so called "spiritual" domain.

I don't think God worries about convincing people or changing their views or worrying if his messengers would be called liars. Messengers of God have been killed and ridiculed numerous times. It would be very unfair/illogical if God took a "neutral" position as it would be confusing and people would needlessly waste time debating things - well actually they do that already even though the Quran is extremely clear on certain things.

As I've said before, God in the Quran points out things He has done. Things which are miracles happening before our very eyes yet most people assume them to be natural. For example the creation/death of life, the formation of stars/planets, the stable sea level, the fixed mountains, the 2 bodies of flowing water fresh/sea water. My thoughts are that science will uncover more observations which will make it easier for people to accept the existence of God scientifically. However there will be many who will still refuse to obey God just as the Jews continued to disobey God even though they were shown clear miracles in front of their eyes. I guess this is why God says there some of us who are never going to obey God no matter what signs are shown to them and that even if they were to be returned to the earth they would sooner or later revert to disobedience.

Here's something which I think science will discover in the near future - According to my understanding of the Bible and Quran, the earth's crust is floating on water and it's only because of the mountains that earth doesn't move all over the place. So beneath the earth's crust we have the Deep as mentioned in the Bible. This Deep is free flowing water and is many times deeper than the oceans. This would explain where the water came from for the flood of Noah and how the sea level is kept stable and why we have "land tides" and why when we have earthquakes we sometimes see the land show a rippling effect.

Now if/when science discovers the above, is it going to make the non believers believe?

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu Alykum

Dear Hicham9

Now considering what your saying is true, that the earth is flat and not round, what happens when you reach any of the ends?

If one was to make a road from north to south, what happens when you reach the end of the south point?

I been on a plane before, and I'm assuming there is not only one direction a plane can take to get to a destination.
for example. If one was flying from Canada to China. Arguably there is two ways to reach China. By going west bound and crossing the pacific ocean or by going east bound crossing the atlantic and Europe. I am assuming the planes fly west bound because of its shorter distance.

Also if the plane keeps flying west across the pacific ocean eventually it reaches China. And if it keeps going west it crosses china and Europe and crosses the atlantic and eventually goes back to Canada. In a circle. Same goes if one was to travel north and south. It just keeps coming back to about the same location over and over.

In assuming the Earth is flat and has no curvature then what happens when someone reaches a dead end?

Peace

[Duster]

Shalom / peace

I can't believe that someone would argue that earth is flat in this day and age. ....》》》 ISS goes around the earth numerous times a day.  Planes go around the earth numerous times a day....>>>baloonists go around the planet....modern travel on planes and ships go around the planet??? What is this ???mass conspiracy of people on the planet!!! Gosh i can't even believe this conversation is being had on this really high quality forum!

[hicham9]

Can any heliocentrist here plz stick to the topic and advance at least one single qurānic passage in support of his/her imaginary "spinning/rotating ball-earth" ?!

افلا ينظرون ... الى الارض كيف سطحت
Do they not then look ... at the earth how was it flattened/leveled ?

The root سطح denoting flatness/levelnes is known in Arabic and well attested in the šemitic tree, like e.g., šṭḥ (ܫܛܥ) in Aramaic — adj. šṭīḥ (ܫܛܝܼܚܐ) means: flat — also, cf. šṭīḥūṯā (ܫܛܝܚܘܬܐ) = flatness, and šṭīḥāʔīṯ (ܫܛܝܼܚܿܐܝܬ) = in a flat way/form; ...

Natheless, the qurānic vb. suṭiḥat (سطحت) in 88:20 is oftentimes misconstructed by traditionalists as "spread" ! They try to hide earth's flatness/levelness (in the Qurān) from the foreign reader. This, i suspect is done either intentionally or subconsciously (out of bias, as most Adamites adhere to heliocentrism nowadays).

Earth's flatness/levelness is an OBSERVABLE living FACT backed up by ground-based experiments and high-altitude observational evidence. Hence, the quranic question: Do they not then LOOK ?! (افلا ينظرون)

[good logic]

Peace All.

I am making one last post in this thread .

Qoran does itself justice by using precise words. The context of what GOD says is so accurate that the challenge of:"You would never find contradictions in Qoran" is amazingly 100% true throughout the ages including the future.

Now, when GOD talks about the "day and night" in Qoran does this phenomenon represent earth or other planets/stars? Of course it means on earth. i.e earth.

When GOD talks about the mountains ,are they the earth mountains or other mountains on other planets...? Of course it means mountains on earth.

Establishing this simple fact from Qoran leads us to the following:

1--Earth is a sphere.  The Quran says that when the night and the day overlap, they make a ball (sphere):
 
خَلَقَ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالأَرضَ بِالحَقِّ يُكَوِّرُ الَّيلَ عَلَى النَّهارِ وَيُكَوِّرُ النَّهارَ عَلَى الَّيلِ وَسَخَّرَ الشَّمسَ وَالقَمَرَ كُلٌّ يَجرى لِأَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى أَلا هُوَ العَزيزُ الغَفّٰرُ
[Qoran 39.5] [Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ] the day over the night, and sakharra the sun and the moon. ALL MOVE (Kullon Yajree كل يجري) move to a prerecorded destiny. Is He not the Exalted, the Forgiver?

The Arabic word "Kura" means ball; its verb "Yukawer" means: to make into a ball. The Qoran says that the overlapping of the night and the day makes a ball (sphere).

Here also the Qoran is referring to ALL MOVING: not only the sun and moon but also ( night and day) Earth. In Arabic grammar there is difference between the singular (one), binary (two) and plural (three or more). The reference to binary is "Kulahuma Yajreean كلاهما يجريان" however the Quran said "Kullon yajree كل يجري" referring to the plural (three or more). Since the sun and moon are just two but the Qoran refers to three or more then according to the Qoran all the three move: sun, moon and ( day and night) Earth.

2--- The mountains are moving ,hence it means the earth is moving also:

"Wa tara Aljibaala( Mountains) tahsibuha ( You think they are) jaamidatun ( stationary), wa hiya tamurru ( They move/speed up)marra al sahaab( The same movement of the clouds).

For the sake of those who think Qoran says "maddadnaha " means  "flat", let us even give them the benefit of a doubt and assume it means" spread out". It still would not come anywhere near" flat". Why?:

[Qoran 50.7] And the earth We have spread it out (والارض مددناها), and set thereon mountains standing firm, and have produced therein every kind of lovely pairs (of plants).

The Qoran says that God spread out the Earth 'والارض مددناها' meaning increase in surface area during formation. 'Madda'( assume) in Arabic means 'spread out( remember it has other meanings ,but not "flat")', however it was mistranslated to 'flat'. Flat in Arabic is "musattah مسطح" and its verb (to make flat) is "sataha سطح" however neither were used in the entire Qoran.

 The Qoran says that God spread out Earth, that is, increased the surface area. Our solar system is 4.57 billion years old. Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.57 bln years ago. However during the accretion process the radius of Earth was not spontaneously 6400 km; but rather started a few kilometers long and progressively increased. But the surface area is a function of the radius, that is, as the radius increases the surface area increases (surface area = 4πR2). So the Qoran correctly described the surface area as increasing. (This is contrary to  using the wrong translation of "flat") .
Again we need to clarify this:
Nowhere does Qoran use the word "flat" for earth. i.e "sataha سطح" .

Anyway,for me, brothers and sisters,  Qoran is very precise and there are no contradictions in it .Especially with proven Science.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.

[samson]

Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.57 bln years ago. However during the accretion process the radius of Earth was not spontaneously 6400 km; but rather started a few kilometers long and progressively increased.

What scientific evidence/experiments do you have that via accretion small bodies can form bigger bodies?

Once you look into it you'll find it's simply not possible. When we observe new stars being formed in space we are observing miracles.

[good logic]

Peace samson.

I am not a Scientist nor a physicist. Therefore I provided some information that is out there from the Science people.

Now ,from Qoran s point of view ,it is irrelevant, as I said:

"Maddadnaha" if you take it to mean "spread out", it merely means "constructed" and not" flat".

Yes I do take GOD s word that the earth was "constructed". So yes, GOD constructed the earth or "spread it out" ,made mountains ,rivers and plants so it can be habitable for us and the animals.

Science is only trying to find out " the how the stars,planets...etc were formed".One can take it or leave it.

Thank you for your query.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Star]

Hi everyone

Samson: God didn't mention in the Quran that the earth is round because He didn't think He needed to. And that's fine. We need to stop reading into the Quran to support our preconceived notions. The fact is that the Quran is absolutely neutral on geocentrism vs. heliocentrism, because there's no reason it should teach us science. The Quran was revealed to 7th century Arabs to teach them religion, not to destroy their ideas of science and magic.

Hicham9: The Quran is not meant to be a science book. It is silent on the issue of heliocentrism. It simply alludes to the fact that celestial bodies move, and it talks about how God spread out the land for us to live in, but it's not meant to teach us science, and we shouldn't read into it that way.
PERIOD.

The earth is not flat. Conspiracy theorists are leading you into delusion. Seriously. The earth is round, and it goes around the sun, and the tilt of its axis causes seasons. Day and night occur in different parts of the world at the same time. How would any of this happen if it were flat?! The constellations in the night sky that we can see change with time, seasonal and annually. How would THIS happen if the earth were flat?! And why should earth be flat when Mars and Jupiter and all other planets are round?! Gravity makes them round! It is a scientific impossibility that earth is flat. It is a logical fallacy. The experiments that you cited are merely mistakes and aberrations. They are easily refuted. Be careful what you believe.

I am leaving this discussion right about now.

Bye.

[samson]

Science is only trying to find out " the how the stars,planets...etc were formed".One can take it or leave it.

I understand what you are saying. However I feel it's a shame that people don't look more into it. Most people/scientists assume things to be natural when in fact they are not. When scientists can't explain something it becomes a mystery or something that scientists will be able to explain in the future. Most will never entertain the idea that it's evidence of God.

[samson]

Earth's flatness/levelness is an OBSERVABLE living FACT backed up by ground-based experiments and high-altitude observational evidence. Hence, the quranic question: Do they not then LOOK ?!

If the Earth is flat then why is it that when I phone someone in the evening in India it's dark over there but still light in the UK?

[hicham9]

If the Earth is flat then why is it that when I phone someone in the evening in India it's dark over there but still light in the UK?

The sun luminary is small in relation to the vast earth !

It acts like a lamp (spotlight) that shines downward, locally illuminating as it moves in circles around its axis, coursing on the ecliptic above the earth. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night !

Very simple.

[samson]

If the Earth is flat then why is it that when I phone someone in the evening in India it's dark over there but still light in the UK?

The sun luminary is small in relation to the vast earth !

It acts like a lamp (spotlight) that shines downward, locally illuminating as it moves in circles around its axis, coursing on the ecliptic above the earth. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night !

Very simple.

If it locally illuminates like a lamp then how come it illuminates the moon as well? How do you explain half moons, crescents, and red moons?

[hicham9]

If it locally illuminates like a lamp then how come it illuminates the moon as well? How do you explain half moons, crescents, and red moons?

The moon is completely self-luminescent, glowing with it's own unique light.

Seen from the earth, it looks almost identical in size to its antipode, the sun, which is a truly remarkable coincidence in the heliocentric model, considering how far apart, and how much smaller the moon is said to be compared to the sun (Sun is meant to be 865,374 miles in diameter and 92,955,807 miles from the Earth, the Moon 2,159 miles in diameter and 238,900 miles from Earth) !

To make the Moon fit the copernican, heliocentric model they reversed it's observed direction from East to West, to West to East, and changed its speed from about 64,000 miles per hour to about 2,200 miles an hour.

“They want you to believe that the Moon's rotation is perfectly synchronized with its orbit so that's why we only ever see one side of the Moon, rather than conclude the obvious - that the Moon is simply NOT rotating. Moreover, they had to slow down the Moon's speed by 58,870 mph AND reverse its direction to West-East to successfully sell their phony heliocentricity system to a gullible public. I don't think there is one person in many, many thousands - regardless of education - who knows that the Copernican Model had to turn the Moon's observable direction around and give it a new speed to accommodate the phases and eclipses.” -Marshall Hall