Messages

211

General Discussions / Re: Hunting by shooting: Halaal?

« on: February 06, 2015, 02:01:15 AM »

Salaam,

As long as the animal is not dead then it is permissible. For example, if a bow and arrow is used to shoot it and it is injured but alive, then it should be slaughtered quickly with the name of God pronounced over it.

212

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: February 05, 2015, 08:51:44 AM »

Salaam Adam

Thanks for your post. You are one of many here who have found Donald's posts to not make sense.
 
If a person is going to compare God's status with humans then their thought process will become flawed.

213

General Discussions / Re: Basics of Morality in Islam

« on: February 02, 2015, 03:40:42 AM »

Donald,

If a person is studying the Quran and still believes it to NOT to be divine, then they will question God's motive/existence/purpose.

From your posts it seems to me that you are like the person above.

So my question is, if you feel that you have studied it in depth and with sincerity, then why do you want to know what believers think when you yourself do not believe in it?

Joseph has answered you in depth and with logic. If you still do not understand that the premice of your questions are flawed, then you should not be on the forum. People on this forum are sincere seekers of knowledge. You just come out with one liners.

214

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: February 02, 2015, 01:54:12 AM »

Can you think of any purpose for God existence any purpose at all?

You can't

Yet you claim everything God does is for a purpose

Of course I can yet I am not going to share it with you. If you cannot think of a reason well good luck to you.

Besides you need everything you know about the universe to be confirmed by scriptures?

That's a very defensive attitude Donald! You don't like it when people tell you things from the Quran do you? Are you deliberately being stupid?

To refresh everyone's memories,you asked me some specific religious questions, I then made some points to you from the Quran. You then demanded that I prove where in the scripture I got that idea from.Now that I am referencing the Quran you have an issue with that!

In my last post to you, I make a point that God is beyond time and space. You don't get it and demand I prove it again. Well I am not going to spoon feed you.

You said:

Where does Quran say that? And what does that even mean?
Do you know what not being bound by time and space means? From what scripture you are getting this from?

You claim to have read the Quran. Why then don't you READ it and figure out for yourself where I am getting it from?

215

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: February 01, 2015, 06:50:07 AM »

Salaam Seraphina,

I admire and respect your stance regarding Donald. You have been dealing with him longer than I have after all 

Also I agree with the points that you make. Let us see whether he decides to come forward.

216

General Discussions / Re: Basics of Morality in Islam

« on: February 01, 2015, 02:39:53 AM »

Donald,

I have decided to interject the conversation here regarding you and Good Logic.He entered the discussion as you were giving him an impression that God and humans are the same. He was pointing out to you the clear differences between God and us.

Now in your last post to Good Logic you say:

I have no doubt an All Knowing being has my answers Goodlogic but not the Quran or else you would already have shown them to me.
I think sometimes  you just have to be humble and say "I don't know"

Why do you think it is Good Logic's job to show you answers from the Quran when you have categorically stated here that the Quran does not have your answers?


If that is the case, then why are you bothering everyone else?

217

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: February 01, 2015, 02:27:34 AM »

I note that you are going off topic again and starting to moan about God, which is a regular occurrence for you on this forum.

I simply mentioned to you,'why is God going to waste His time by having a register/record for them and gathering them in front of Him?', to illustrate a point.

God is not bound by time or space. You should know that.

My point is that everything He does is for a purpose. So why have a record and a gathering for the animals if they are not accountable for anything?

Humans will have a record and will be gathered in front of God according to Quran. You should know why that is..it is for a purpose:
accountability

Now, I gave you a verse where it  talks about animals and birds having a record and being gathered in front of God. Using logic therefore it means some sort of accountability

And still you have not provided me with a verse that says animals are held accountable for their deeds

I am giving you a verse from the Quran. If you want God to spell it out for you then that's your issue.

You say:

I am not getting that from scriptures but from science

Let us stick to an equal platform.

You provide me proof from the Quran to support the views you have made on this thread:

It is unnecessary cruel since animals are not tested by God or anything

don't have any concepts of morality right and wrong or rules

218

General Discussions / Re: Basics of Morality in Islam

« on: February 01, 2015, 01:58:35 AM »

Salaam Donald,

You have concluded that religious morality is flawed. You say:

And I have proven with arguments you have not addressed  that  the concept of absolute morality and absolute concepts of good and evil is flawed since our judgment if something is good or bad depends on the person or entity responsible for it.

Of course it depends on who is doing it. If one was a person and another was God there should be a difference in our judgement if we are believers.

For example if you are a warlord and you intentionally  kill 1000 children  you are evil and believers are appalled at it and they will hate you .
But if God kills 1000 kids with an earthquake it is not evil and believers will not be appalled at it and difference is they will love more God instead of hating Him.

Do you want believers to despise and hate God for the above. Is that why you say religious morality is flawed?

Please let us get straight to the point here, as you have been complaining about this issue a lot on this forum.

219

General Discussions / Re: 2:62, 5:69, 22:17 and 48:13

« on: February 01, 2015, 01:35:43 AM »

Salaam and thanks Duster.

I would also like to thank you for all your contributions to this forum. I note that you often provide  members direct links to the appropriate articles and places where Joseph has written about a  particular topic.

This is very helpful as it assists people in getting their answers quickly.

220

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: February 01, 2015, 01:31:18 AM »

Salaam Donald,

You are the one who needs to prove what you say when you stated to me:

Truthseeker its kind of absurd  to think animals are tested they don't have any concepts of morality right and wrong or rules.

Where in the scriptures are you getting this notion from?

The verse I gave you mentions that ' We have not neglected in their Register a thing'

Now, according to you, animals are not accountable for anything, they have no concept of morality etc, so why is God going to waste His time by having a register/record for them and gathering them in front of Him?

If animals live and die on this Earth, have no purpose, have no accountability then why this verse?

I am making a point from scripture that is heavily indicating some sort of accountability for the animals yet you have no verse to show me your viewpoint.

So again I ask you to prove your statement :

they don't have any concepts of morality right and wrong or rules.

221

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: January 31, 2015, 11:17:37 AM »

Salaam,

Why is it absurd? Obviously YOU haven't read from the scripture. I am talking about verse 6.38:

"And there is no creature on [or within] the Earth, or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in their Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered"

Number one, they are communities (ummah) like us. Which means a group of living things having certain characteristics and circumstances like us.

Number two, they will a have a record and will be gathered unto their Lord just like us.

My comment actually was supported by scripture. In my posts I make it clear when I have an opinion based from scripture and when I have a personal feeling.

Also as a moderator on this forum, I am respectfully asking you to be careful with your wording. I have noticed other members objecting to the way you say things as you seem to be offending others.

Regarding my post, all you had to do was ask me where in the scripture did I get this idea from? Instead, you made accusations against me, saying "is not supported by any scriptures" just because you think it's 'absurd'.

You seem to me from your posts to find things unfair and unjust, absurd even. May I suggest that if you haven't read the Quran recently, that you do so. That way you can get a better idea of what is scripture versus what is personal opinion.

222

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: January 31, 2015, 09:42:26 AM »

Salaam Donald,

How do you know that animals are not tested by God? He tells us in the Quran that they are communities like us and they will be bought back to Him.

My personal view is that any accountability will be different because they are not vicergents as we are.

Also, I have made some comments on your post "The basis of morality in Islam".

Thanks

223

General Discussions / Re: Basics of Morality in Islam

« on: January 31, 2015, 09:18:17 AM »

Salaam Donald,

I note that you are making these comments on other posts too so obviously it is troubling you.

Firstly, you have to see God as a completely separate entity from His creation. He is the Creator, we the created.

He is beyond our comprehension. His power and might surpass all things. You cannot compare humankind to Him as this is illogical. We are not the same species. He was always present and will always be. In His wisdom He created the entire Universe and all that resides within.

Now taking that into mind I don't see why you are taking a like for like approach in comparing what bad/evil deeds humans commit with the punishments that God metes out.

He created us from nothing so is aware of our innermost thoughts. We however are limited in our knowledge of Him. That is why He has sent us scriptures. He tells us exactly why He has created us!
So that He can reward those who do good deeds and worship Him (10.4)

That is so simple to understand. If you can grasp this then you shall see the difference between us and Him. With the scriptures we can understand why God punishes but we will never understand the wisdom behind it because He has foresight! We cannot see into the future . He sees and knows all because He is outside His creation.

A lot of things may seem unjust to you but remember that God leans towards mercy when it comes to His creation. In fact he tells us in the Quran that the rule of Mercy is incumbent upon Him.

Now compare that to us..how fickle we are as a species, do we make it incumbent on us to be merciful? Never. We cannot be absolute in justice or mercy, only our Creator can .

He is not evil, His creation however can be and those that commit evil, despicable acts will be punished by Him.

224

General Discussions / Re: Location of Revelation and whether Prophet Muhammad was Meccan

« on: January 31, 2015, 07:45:06 AM »

I do agree with Duster in that if you are not concerned about the location, then it doesn't really matter.

Some Quran centric groups tend to overdo their discussions in my opinion, and overlook the bigger picture as they say.

225

General Discussions / Re: Br. Joseph, please answer this...

« on: January 31, 2015, 07:34:28 AM »

Thanks Seraphina for your kind words.