Messages

I assured the matter when I read the verse in context. Here in context, soon after refers to till the previous moment of one's death except mocking of repentance. Am I right on this?

Repentance has nothing to do with the 100 lashes which is bound to perform for the crime.

Understood. But if someone skipped 100 lashes, but repented sincerely, will 100 lashes be due for him yet religiously?

[after that]

Salamun Alaikum,

In verse 24:5 it is saying that "Except for those who repent after that and reform, for indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Does this mean who committed adultery must suffer 100 lashes even if he repents before that? What is the term "after that" means, after what exactly???

[Thanks for the response]

Thanks for the response. Behind all these repentance, intention is the key, that I believe. I once did a critical sin by ignorance. After long times later, I realized what I've done & stopped immediately & asked forgiveness from my lord. Bless for me for better future. Salamun Alaikum!

[4:16The couple who commit adultery shall be punished.* If they repent and reform, you shall leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Most Merciful.وَالَّذانِ يَأتِيٰنِها مِنكُم فَـٔاذوهُما فَإِن تابا وَأَصلَحا فَأَعرِضوا عَنهُما إِنَّ اللَّهَ كانَ تَوّابًا رَحيمًا 4:17Repentance is acceptable by God from those who fall in sin out of ignorance, then repent immediately thereafter. God redeems them. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.إِنَّمَا التَّوبَةُ عَلَى اللَّهِ لِلَّذينَ يَعمَلونَ السّوءَ بِجَهٰلَةٍ ثُمَّ يَتوبونَ مِن قَريبٍ فَأُولٰئِكَ يَتوبُ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم وَكانَ اللَّهُ عَليمًا حَكيمًا 4:18Not acceptable is the repentance of those who commit sins until death comes to them, then say, "Now I repent." Nor is it acceptable from those who die as disbelievers. For these, we have prepared a painful retribution.وَلَيسَتِ التَّوبَةُ لِلَّذينَ يَعمَلونَ السَّيِّـٔاتِ حَتّىٰ إِذا حَضَرَ أَحَدَهُمُ المَوتُ قالَ إِنّى تُبتُ الـٰٔنَ وَلَا الَّذينَ يَموتونَ وَهُم كُفّارٌ أُولٰئِكَ أَعتَدنا لَهُم عَذابًا أَليمًا]

Peace Sstikstof.

Let us look at the subject and context of 4:17:

4:16
The couple who commit adultery shall be punished.* If they repent and reform, you shall leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Most Merciful.
وَالَّذانِ يَأتِيٰنِها مِنكُم فَـٔاذوهُما فَإِن تابا وَأَصلَحا فَأَعرِضوا عَنهُما إِنَّ اللَّهَ كانَ تَوّابًا رَحيمًا
4:17
Repentance is acceptable by God from those who fall in sin out of ignorance, then repent immediately thereafter. God redeems them. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.
إِنَّمَا التَّوبَةُ عَلَى اللَّهِ لِلَّذينَ يَعمَلونَ السّوءَ بِجَهٰلَةٍ ثُمَّ يَتوبونَ مِن قَريبٍ فَأُولٰئِكَ يَتوبُ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم وَكانَ اللَّهُ عَليمًا حَكيمًا
4:18
Not acceptable is the repentance of those who commit sins until death comes to them, then say, "Now I repent." Nor is it acceptable from those who die as disbelievers. For these, we have prepared a painful retribution.
وَلَيسَتِ التَّوبَةُ لِلَّذينَ يَعمَلونَ السَّيِّـٔاتِ حَتّىٰ إِذا حَضَرَ أَحَدَهُمُ المَوتُ قالَ إِنّى تُبتُ الـٰٔنَ وَلَا الَّذينَ يَموتونَ وَهُم كُفّارٌ أُولٰئِكَ أَعتَدنا لَهُم عَذابًا أَليمًا

Qoran is talking here about a specific sin, adultery. Although repentance applies to all sins.
4;17 and 4:18 go on to explain repentance in general

So if one repents, knowing full well ,this is a sin, obviously they need to stop it immediately, once they realise /know it is wrong.

If one carries on,knowing full well they  are committing a sin,then they either do not want to stop immediately or they might stop in the future...Or until it is time to die( No one knows how long in the future they are going to live!).then obviously they are not repenting?
Hope that helps.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Understood! But what if someone realizes his sin 10 years later & repent, Will it be acceptable according to this verse as it is talking about repent "soon after/soon immediately/ min qarībin".

I specially heard from an interpretation that the term "soon after" means "before the death of a person". Is this correct?

[immediately]

I think "soon after" means soon after they realize they've done something wrong. Obviously, the person has to figure out that they've done something wrong first, and they should take initiative to repent immediately after this.

Just a note, the verse says "people who do wrong in ignorance". All sins are committed in general ignorance or disregard of God's rules. This verse isn't only talking about accidental sins, it's saying that pretty much all sins are done out of ignorance. So yeah.

But Allah says that He will accept repentance only if the repentance is done immediately. However other verses in Quran says that He will forgive all sins when a person repents and it is not necessarily that the repentance is done immediately. Can you please explain the correct meaning of the verse 4:17?

[And to Wakas this is the reply for you from us both,]

Peace   Sstikstof.

Thank you.

Yes, the issue of "salat" continues...

I can only speak for myself when I say I connect with my Lord 5 times a day.

At this moment of time I have not seen evidence to the contrary.

GOD did say ,when HE sends any new scripture/messenger,that HE tries us with " our rites"

I believe ,once we start a relationship with the Lord,we have to trust in Him completely,including our understanding of His words/scripture.
I have always tried my best to stay  loyal to my Lord .open minded for learning His scripture,asking Him to guide me to do better and follow the best understanding . Of course I am always aware that I should never say "my mind is made up"!

Best of luck with your query/ies.
GOD bless you.
Peace brother.

Salamun Alaikum, brother. In one sense you were right & both interpretations can be agreed regarding 5 prayers.

And to Wakas this is the reply for you from us both,
http://quransmessage.com/critiques/Response%20to%20Wakas.htm

[Can someone please explain what does verse 4:17 mean by the term "soon after" for repentance acceptable purpose?]

Can someone please explain what does verse 4:17 mean by the term "soon after" for repentance acceptable purpose?

[أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ وَقُرءانَ الفَجرِ إِنَّ قُرءانَ الفَجرِ كانَ مَشهودًا]

Peace brothers.

Wakas, as you well know, this salat issue is ongoing and will continue.

I believe the brothers and sisters who ask questions about salat are doing so with honesty. They want reassurance and as many views as it takes ,if they are not satisfied.

With respect,brother, I have read your article on "salat", and it leaves the reader with more questions than answers.I agree you are analysing the verses and  your aim is to  study the verses and dissect what is said in them. However there is salvation and obeying a message at stake.
GOD has chosen "Arabic" for His last message. Why? __ Let me touch on it here a little bit_:
For example here is a verse about salat:

أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ وَقُرءانَ الفَجرِ إِنَّ قُرءانَ الفَجرِ كانَ مَشهودًا

What  do you say to this explanation:  All the 5 daily salat are included here, why?:

1- LIDULUKI--The letter "LI"implies repetition ( more than two,at least three, because there is a different  word for two in Arabic)  The sun declines during the three parts of its daily cycle __Noon to Afternoon, Afternoon to sunset and sunset to "Ghasak " darkness. One could argue here about the parts ,but it is commonly known that these are the only three parts of the sun cycle known by the whole world between midday and the darkness of the night.
2- "GHASSAKI" means when it is dark in the night. One part.

3-  "Wa,Qorani Alfajr"--Wa implies as well as ...do such..i.e  as well as "Aquimi salat at fajr, study/read Qoran also. ( Qoran study at fajr is very beneficial,we will not go into this here)

Hence  5 different parts of the 24 hour cycle mentioned for " Aquimi salat"...i.e 5  daily salat!

Peace Brother Good Logic. In this statement I want you to be assured of Joseph Islam's approach as member of this forum. In one of his article I have found it is being said,

Author:
Whilst the author is to be commended for stating there are two options for the phrase "duluk as-shams" in 17:78, one of the resultant interpretations cited is not possible according to the Arabic, quote:
"Therefore depending on the lean as to which interpretation one favours of the term 'sun's decline' (i.e. whether from zenith or towards sunset) will determine whether one accepts this as a reference to all prayers from noon to sunset (Dhuhr, Asr and Maghrib) or exclusively to 'Maghrib'."

It cannot be a reference to "all prayers from noon to sunset (Dhuhr, Asr and Maghrib)" as the singular salat is used and only one time-period is given i.e. "establish salat at A to B". It is a common error for other articles promoting 5 to contain this obvious problem. In this case the author opts for it referring to one salat, e.g. "Maghrib".

Joseph Islam:
In the main, I do not disagree with the author's argument on this point.



Joseph Islam agreed that salat word is in singular address. So it is a reference to one prayer period, which is maghrib.

[أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ وَقُرءانَ الفَجرِ إِنَّ قُرءانَ الفَجرِ كانَ مَشهودًا]

Peace brothers.

Wakas, as you well know, this salat issue is ongoing and will continue.

I believe the brothers and sisters who ask questions about salat are doing so with honesty. They want reassurance and as many views as it takes ,if they are not satisfied.

With respect,brother, I have read your article on "salat", and it leaves the reader with more questions than answers.I agree you are analysing the verses and  your aim is to  study the verses and dissect what is said in them. However there is salvation and obeying a message at stake.
GOD has chosen "Arabic" for His last message. Why? __ Let me touch on it here a little bit_:
For example here is a verse about salat:

أَقِمِ الصَّلوٰةَ لِدُلوكِ الشَّمسِ إِلىٰ غَسَقِ الَّيلِ وَقُرءانَ الفَجرِ إِنَّ قُرءانَ الفَجرِ كانَ مَشهودًا

What  do you say to this explanation:  All the 5 daily salat are included here, why?:

1- LIDULUKI--The letter "LI"implies repetition ( more than two,at least three, because there is a different  word for two in Arabic)  The sun declines during the three parts of its daily cycle __Noon to Afternoon, Afternoon to sunset and sunset to "Ghasak " darkness. One could argue here about the parts ,but it is commonly known that these are the only three parts of the sun cycle known by the whole world between midday and the darkness of the night.
2- "GHASSAKI" means when it is dark in the night. One part.

3-  "Wa,Qorani Alfajr"--Wa implies as well as ...do such..i.e  as well as "Aquimi salat at fajr, study/read Qoran also. ( Qoran study at fajr is very beneficial,we will not go into this here)

Hence  5 different parts of the 24 hour cycle mentioned for " Aquimi salat"...i.e 5  daily salat!

Now ,let us give the definition of day night ,here  from Qoran:
91:1
By the sun and its brightness.
وَالشَّمسِ وَضُحىٰها
91:2
The moon that follows it.
وَالقَمَرِ إِذا تَلىٰها
91:3
The day that reveals.
وَالنَّهارِ إِذا جَلّىٰها
91:4
The night that covers.
وَالَّيلِ إِذا يَغشىٰها
Basically day is when the sun is visible- Above the horizon - and night is when the sun is covered-- below the horizon.

Notice GOD was precise not to specifically say day or night in the verse. GOD used "Duluki shams" and "Ghassaki al lail".Hence five parts of the 24 hour cycle mentioned in the verse?

Anyway ,just thought I will throw another angle.
GOD bless.
Peace brothers.

I agree with good logic.

[evidence]

Please first note that no one in this world can satisfy you if ure trying to find greater details in quran and trust noones interpretation even if thats satisfactory.

I ask you to please refrain from claiming XYZ about me or my view.


Let's just stick to the facts...

Your assumptions so far:

1) timed-SBH=timed-salat (according to your own criteria I imagine)
2) singular address means plural address
3) morning/evening doesn't mean at those times only
4) your own analysis of all timed-SBH verses is sound (despite no-one ever publishing an article about it so this can be scrutinised)

1. This is not my assumption. This is evidence from joseph islam as well as so many other muslims which satisfies condition of traditional salat.
As Joseph Islam said to you previously,
The fact that 'sbh' is used in other contexts in the Quran was never in dispute. However, it remains noteworthy when 'sbh' is used with a specific period of the day. As a crude example, If God said glorify me at 2pm, what would that mean? As mentioned, particular periods of the day have been given specific mention to establish salaat or to extol his glory. We find such use of 'sbh' in verse 30:17 as a part of the day to extol God's glory:
"Therefore glory be to God when you enter upon the time of the evening (Arabic: tum'suna) and when you enter upon the time of the morning (Arabic: tus'bihun)". (30:17)

2. I never said singular means plural address. Please read again.  I said plural address time periods can be referred to other parts when singular time period separately be mentioned in same verse together.

3. This is right.

4. As i have said that its not my own analysis. This is known by all traditional muslims including sunni & shia.

My humble request is that please stop confusing people around you.

Please first note that no one in this world can satisfy you if ure trying to find greater details in quran and trust noones interpretation even if thats satisfactory. I'm telling you that because I also faced this situation. I have analysed so many interpretations and finally joseph was satisfactory whose article make sense. Secondly, I've checked all timed sbh and found no problem in them where glorification is added. Third, in 30:17 this meant entering upon morning/evening, not only morning/evening. That's why, it is belonged to timed sbh which mean salat periods, but I was confused that exactly which periods are referred in this verse.

[WHAT MAY BE DECENTLY APPARENT (Ila ma zahara minha)]

From Quran's perspective,

Code Select Expand

024.031
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their adornment (Arabic: Zeenatahunna) except what is apparent of it (ma zahara minha) " that they should draw their headcovers (Arabic: Bi'khumurihinna) over their bosoms (Arabic: Jayubihin) and not to display their adornment (Arabic: Zeenatahunna) except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss"

As joseph Islam said,

WHAT MAY BE DECENTLY APPARENT (Ila ma zahara minha)

    'Ila ma zahara minha' is a reference to what a person may openly reveal in accordance with prevailing custom which is decent and not unduly immoral. However, traditional clergy have throughout Islamic history attempted to restrict the definition of 'what may decently be apparent' to a woman's hands, feet and her face, and at times, even commanding full coverage.

    However, from analysis, it appears that the meaning of 'Ila ma zahara minha' has a much wider purport. It's subtlety and deliberate ambiguity in the Quranic narrative (as God never runs out of words 18:109) seems to allow for all society norms and sensible judgment which remains firmly within the ambit of 'human decency'.

    A possible cue to understand this phrase is verse 24:60 where by deduction, a younger believing woman is expected to maintain an outer garment covering (thobe) when in unfamiliar company. The classical definition of a woman's thobe as an outer garment is understood to provide coverage of the arms and legs, leaving exposed the feet, hands, face, head and neck. Please see section 'COVERAGE OF THE ARMS AND LEGS' below. Bedecking the hair in public (beautifying oneself to an extent which can become a cause of attraction) also needs to be carefully considered under the broad Arabic term 'zeenat'. 

Please check this article for more info,
http://quransmessage.com/articles/hijaab%20FM3.htm

[Periods of the day]

In my Opinion, Periods of the day matters, not the clock. You may experience  little differences on salat intervals between periods. You gotta be prepared for that kinda issues.

[other things]

You are complicating yourself & to me too. There are plural addresses & singular address in verse 30:17-18. If you singles out verse 30:17, it says part of the days as plural as far as ive realized. But if you find plural & singular addresses in a single verse, then you have to mean plural address to other part of the day as another part already mentioned as singular in that verse. And for morning/evening periods as plural, these verses actually meant other things as general purpose (not prayer periods) with praying entire days. This is my general & simple opinion for these issues.
As Joseph Islam said,

Code Select Expand


For example:

"And do not send away those who call upon their Lord at morning (ghudw) and evening (ashiyy)" - 6:52

"And be patient yourself with those who call upon their Lord at morning (ghudw) and evening (ashiyy)..." - 18:28

Of course, this does not mean that one is thus permissible to send away or be impatient with those that call upon their lord in the afternoon or those who summon their Lord at other parts of the day. As I am sure you will agree, this would be an unwarranted, quite preposterous suggestion. [b]This is simply a reference to those who call upon their Lord with regularity and consistency. [/b]