Dear Brother Joseph,
I posted one photo (Inspired by Lesley Hazleton work "After the Prophet: The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split") upon which one of my friend responded:
"Abu Sufyan was the greatest enemy of the prophet while his wife Hind ate the liver of Hamza. They did not convert to Islam till near the end of the Prophet's life when the Islamic leadership had gained supreme power in Mecca. Muawiya never recognised Ali as the 4th Caliph and waged war against him. Historically and in essence Muawiya was the 4th Caliph and not Ali."
"The 5th Caliph of Islam Yazid was the bitter enemy of Hasan and Hussein. This enmity led to the tragedy of Kerbala. Islamic Caliphate continued with the Ummayads and then by Abbasids the while the Hasimites were persecuted for generations."
"The ummayads were great invaders and stretched the Islamic empire right up to Spain. The great part of Islamic ideology in the world today is what was spread by Muslim caliphates in the first 200 years of Islamic dominance."
I shared with him your article:
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/righteousness%20based%20on%20lineage%20FM3.htmHe again responded:
My comments have nothing to do with Quran, Belief, the debate on Caliphate or any other religious notions. I have simply stated "historical" records. Whether Hind eating the liver of Hamza was right wrong is not for me to judge. If Muawaiya and Yazid waged wars against Ali and his sons, am not judging who was right and who was wrong. Just stating what happened in a historical context my friend. Who knows Yazid killing a 6 month old baby was justified in order to save Islam. Islamic history is just marred with Blood from day one.
btw even Ayesha waged war against Ali in order to avenge Usman's death. FACT !! ... again who was righteous and who was not.. I am not going to argue on things which cannot be provenI once again shared few of your articles:
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/shia%20FM3.htmhttp://www.quransmessage.com/articles/imammat%20FM3.htmhttp://www.quransmessage.com/articles/the%20compilation%20of%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm His response.
My Dear Friend
I am not from any sect but a student of religious history be it any religion. Thank you for sending me these files, I appreciate it. However I am aware of most of these verses and inclinations that they fall towards. I have tried to read your emails with an open mind and hopefully you will do the same.
“And hold fast, altogether, by the rope Which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves.” [Al-Qur’an 3:103]
“As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, you have no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.” [Al-Qur’an 6:159]
I think you are aware of these verses. Just by calling yourself a Sunni or a Shia makes a person disobey the very word of Quran.
I am ONLY going to indicate what is UNDISPUTED and is accepted by ALL schools of thought in Islam and what they agree upon. Let's not even get into the disagreements and disputed facts and events.
Your email was about Shia beliefs in the house of the Prophet and his family. It mentioned other prophets before Mohammad and their sons not being on the right path. Also as your email said there is no mention of the importance of the Prophets family in the Quran, any blood lines (aal).... etc
Ahl al-Bayt is an Arabic phrase literally meaning People of the House, or family of the House. The phrase "ahl al-bayt" was used in Arabia before the advent of Islam.
Please note a reply from the Quran:
QURAN Surah 3 (Aali‑Imraan), Ayah 61:“....then reply [O' Muhammad]: Let us call upon our children and your children, our ladies and your ladies, ourselves and yourselves,
then we pray so that Allah's wrath be upon those who are false.”
Ayah for Mubaahala in the 9th year of Hijrah is a well documented event accepted in all Schools of Islamic thought and history. It has ZERO disputes. As instructed by this Ayat of the Quran the Prophet took with him Ali, Hasan, Hussain and Fatima; the "Ahl al-bayt".
QURAN: Al‑Ahzaab, Surah 33, Ayah 33..... “Verily, Allah has decreed to purify you, O' Ahlul Bayt, and sanctify you in a perfect way”
Again the occasion and background tafseer is given in all schools of Islamic belief including Sahih Tirmidhi, Vol. 13, Pages 200. How the Ayah of Tat'heer (Purification) was revealed on behalf of Fatima, Ali, Al‑Hasan, and Al‑Husain. Quran clearly cleanses the Ahlul Bayt !!
QURAN: Surah 42 (Shoora), Ayah 23 demands the love of Ahlul Bayt.
Declare [O' Muhammad]: “I ask you of no recompense for my toil except the love for my kin (family).” Quran demands you to love the Kin of the prophet.
QURAN: Surah 8 (Al‑Anfaal), Ayah 75 "and the blood relations are nearer to one another in the Book of Allah. Certainly Allah knows all" Blood relations clearly hold importance if you go by the Quran.
QURAN: Surah 37 (Al‑Saffaat), Ayah 130 "Peace unto Aali Yassin (aal / lineage of Mohammad). Verily, thus We recompense those who do good." ... Quran sends peace over the Prophets Lineage .. Aali yaseen.
There are many others like in which Ali's incident of giving his ring in charity while in rukoo is mentioned in the Quran.. something like those who give charity while in rukoo.... there are many others also ....
Almost all religions talk about a Saviour of the World that has to come at the end of time, Hindu's believe it will be Vishnus incarnation, we say it will be Mehdi, the Christians, the Jews the Bhudists all have this concept of a last Saviour. Anyway it is a long debate.
Now your own quote from the Quran... 068:036-38 "What is wrong with you, how do you judge? Or do you have another book which you study? In it, you can find what you wish?"
My friend I do not tend to impose anything, One just needs to continue the search if interested in it with an open mind. I will try to give you all the answers from Quran with my little knowledge but with my little experience of attempting to understand the great book multiple times. These answers will only give birth to more questions. That is why there are so many different beliefs stemming from the same book.
The answer for this is also in the Quran itself my friend.
QURAN: Surah 3 (Aali‑Imraan), Ayah 7 ....It is Allah who sent to you [O' Muhammad] the Book [Quran], wherein are some decisive verses —they are the basis of the Book—
and others having variable meanings. Men with perversity in their hearts emphasize the unclear therein (seeking to mislead);
while none knows the Quran's hidden meaning except Allah and the erudite (firmly rooted) in knowledge; who say
We believe in it, all is from our Lord. Nevertheless, none heeds this save those endowed with wisdom.
To understand the Quran in its entirety and its hidden meaning is impossible for human beings. According to the Quran itself. We can keep understanding more when we read from different sources, shia, sunni, sufi and what non believers have to say about it.
All these answers I have written taking reference from the Quran and could write a lot more from the Quran .. if I pick up the Sunni hadith books to relate the same. It will be never ending of what is the importance of the ahlul bayt in Islam.
All these arguments from the Quran are meaningless though if someone does not believe in it. For example I could easily say, I do not believe in the Quran and Islam. How can you prove to me that your or my argument means anything. It does not mean anything my friend. ZERO !! That is why I never state these as facts... I put Quran down as belief... more accurately ones interpretation of their belief.
When I say Fact.. I refer to historical events which are well documented and form a part of history and not belief. Events which even after a lot of distortion, book burnings remain consistent amongst all books and historians. It has nothing to do with religion.
Please come back to my original statement and answer in a yes or a no, for it being a historical fact in all history books.
I see you have removed the blood line of the Quraish from you page. I am sure you have your reasons and they are noble. However hiding Islamic history will not cleanse the blood it is stained with.
Anyway answer in a yes or no and we can maybe agree on my statement to your profile picture. You can read up on them in any book on Islamic history to verify it.
Ummaya the adopted son of the family had animosity with the Hashimites and they formed different clans before the birth of the Islam or the Prophet.
AbuSufyan (ummayad) was one of the biggest enemies of the Prophet and fought many battles with him (badr and Uhad), converted to Islam right at the end of Prophets life when the Muslim army had defeated Abu Sufyans force in Mekkah.
Hind, Muwaviya's mother and Abu Sufyans wife ate the liver of Prophet's and Alis chacha... Humza. (after defeating the Muslims in Uhad)
Ayesha came to the battle field to fight Ali in order to avenge the death of the 3rd Caliph Usman. Battle of Jamal - the Camel.
Ameer Muawiya declared himself Caliph and never took oath under Ali. They fought battles for Caliphate turf, eventually Ali was killed and Muawiya remained the only Caliph in the Muslim world. Battle of Siffin
Yazeed son of Muwaviya Killed Hussain and his family at the battle of Kerbala and remained the Caliph of Islam.
Ummayds remained the Caliphs followed by the Abbassid Caliphs for centuries of Islamic rule.
These are not beliefs... these are historical events. What could constitute as belief could be.... Who was right, who was wrong... who had the true message of Islam... should the Muslim empire have spread by conquering ? Should it not have...
Fact is that Muslim Armies went in as Invaders with armies ... fought wars and battles... conquered land and converted millions after the result of a bloody war. Including Mohd Bin Qasim also an Ummayad who came as an Invader into the Indian Sub Continent and was a great conqueror.
These are not misconceptions or unproven events my friend... they are historical events which remain undisputed in all sources of History. You can of course deny it my saying no Kerbala never happened and neither did Mohd Bin Qasim invade India. No one can stop you from it. But Fact is that Hitler was the head of the German Army !!
What can be misconception are the beliefs in these events ... righteousness... who was fighting for Allah.. who was fighting for glory... for power... land... but FACT is they were fighting... one has to read enough to come to their own conclusions of righteousness... or one can ignore them in fear to uncover the ugly truth..
believing that Yazid was on the wrong and Husain was right can be a misconception but Yazid winning the war and beheading Hussain is not a misconception but an historical event.
If I tell you my belief you might accuse me of an non believer and blasphemy so lets not even start on what I believe in. Yes what I am interested in is the evolution and history of religion, all religions. It is a subject I picked up in University and still research on.
Now my personal take on the subject which can be a misconception and has nothing to do with historical fact or Quranic reference; my personal view of the Sunnu Shia Debate and Islamic history is....
Shias over exaggerate certain beliefs in order to assert their identity and upgrade the men who held the rightful teachings and tradition of the Prophet. Their piety against the sins of their oppressors clearly shows who was on the right path. The Quran and the Prophet stated them as cleansed and a lot of shias consider them as incorrectly infallible.
The Sunni down play a lot of events in order to hide the ugly Islamic history and evolution completely tainted with blood of one another and much distortion of the sharia itself. They downgrade the men who kept the true tradition of the prophet.The Islamic ideology spread in the world was that of the monarchs (misguided caliphs) of early Islam thus it forms the majority in the Islamic world and Muslims remain misguided today.
Both sects toed different lines so the hate and distance has just gotten wider over time. Somewhere in the middle lies the true spirit of Islam.
The Sufis find a wonderful balance but their ways are sometimes difficult to understand by ordinary minds. On the surface their practices seem polytheistic as their reverence to the saints and intercessions points towards shirk. On the contrary the core of Sufi belief is Oneness of God and his Supremacy over the universe. My research on Sufism is on at the moment and I find it very intriguing.
I have extensively travelled through Middle East Asia (covering all GCC countries), East Africa, Most of Far East Asia, North America and all western and northern European countries. I have spoken to many people on the subject but have not found 10% of my inner self, that is where the truth lies.
Sadly I found Muslims to be the worst people I have come across. The entire Arab belt is full of hardened heartless souls. May they be guided. "Jo ban nahee sakey insaan woh kyaa baningay musalman (Who can't be a human can't be a Muslim)"... Northern Europeans who have no religion seem to be on the right path of God/Allah/Humanity.
Opening one's mind is one of the most difficult things to do in this world. I consciously try doing it every day of my life. Maybe there is no one true religion in this world but the religion that is inside your own heart that is true for you is the true one. Your own soul and conciousness forms the spirit of your religion. Being true to it will bring you to peace.
My humble four cents...
Cheers Mate
p.s. Try LSD / ACID ... it might help !! Please recommend how should I respond to him with respect to removing his thought (as you have mentioned in APPEAL TO RIGHTEOUSNESS) Their actions would have no bearing on us. and misconceptions he has mentioned regarding Mehdi etc.
P.S. Do let me know how can I share that image with you here.
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