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Offline munir rana

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prayer
« on: March 16, 2014, 11:35:04 AM »
Dear Brother Joseph

Salam

According to Quran we must recite in prayers in a intermediate way. (17:110)

But most of our imam recite quietly in Dhuhr and Asr. Is there any problem to follow them? Shall i be responsible for that?

Best regards.

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: prayer
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 11:40:43 AM »
Wa alaikum assalam

The main purpose is to be part of worship to God and to remember Him. Unless you have such authority, you cannot logistically change the tradition. However, I would personally take the best from the tradition.

As I shared with you in your previous post and please take note once again:

064:016
So keep your duty to God as best you can / what you are able (Arabic: ma is’tata’tum), and listen, and obey, and spend; that is better for your souls. And whoso is saved from his own greed, such are the successful”
 
The Arabic word 'istata'a' means to be able, can or to be capable of. Therefore, given the above verse, one is only expected to the best they can whilst striving in the way of God.

I hope that helps, God willing
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Anwar

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Re: prayer
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2014, 08:08:03 PM »
The verse can also be taken to mean not to hide or publicize that you pray.

Salam

Offline Wakas

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Re: prayer
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2014, 01:15:31 PM »
peace,

I recommend using a concordance, grammar and dictionary resource.

17:110 can be read as follows:
...And do not be loud/public/overbearing in/with your salat, and not silent/quiet/weak/abject in/with it; but seek a path in between...
 
You may also wish to read in conjunction with 7:205
...remember your Lord within yourself, humbly and (in) fear; and without loudness/manifestation of words, in the morning and the evening...

Offline Saba

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Re: prayer
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2014, 03:17:28 PM »
I recommend using a concordance, grammar and dictionary resource.

17:110 can be read as follows:
...And do not be loud/public/overbearing in/with your salat, and not silent/quiet/weak/abject in/with it; but seek a path in between...

Salaam Wakas ....What does your translation actually mean?

...And do not be loud/public/overbearing in/with your salat, and not silent/quiet/weak/abject in/with it; but seek a path in between...


Does it mean:

...And do not be loud with your salat, and not silent with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be public with your salat, and not silent with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be overbearing with your salat, and not silent with it; but seek a path in between...?


...And do not be loud with your salat, and not quiet with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be loud with your salat, and not weak with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be loud with your salat, and not abject in with it; but seek a path in between...?


...And do not be public with your salat, and not quiet with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be public with your salat, and not weak with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be public with your salat, and not abject in with it; but seek a path in between...?

...And do not be overbearing with your salat, and not quiet with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be overbearing with your salat, and not weak with it; but seek a path in between...?
...And do not be overbearing with your salat, and not abject with it; but seek a path in between...?


I don't mean to be rude, but you do a lot of this in your articles and posts and for me at least it causes more confusion and puts me right off. Opening up so many permutations gives the impression that one can choose whatever meaning they like.

Offline Anwar

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Re: prayer
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2014, 05:59:06 PM »
Saba,

You should chose the best meaning and the meanings that are viable and do not contradict the Quran, but seem to compliment it in the best fashion.


Wakas,

your use of 'to be public' is actually to publicize' or to make it known to the public. Khafata also means 'to hide' (akhfaa) as well as to lower.

It is best to related this concept of how to pray to other passages that talk about how or why people pray and what is bad and what is good. The first that comes to mind 'alladheena hum yuraa'oona'

I will have to research another verse that speaks about hiding the fact that one prays. I have always just taken the verse in Al-Ma'un as a confirmation that was is being spoken about is publicizing one's praying, the opposite of that being hiding the fact that one prays.

Salam

Offline Saba

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Re: prayer
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2014, 09:02:22 PM »
Saba,

You should chose the best meaning and the meanings that are viable and do not contradict the Quran, but seem to compliment it in the best fashion.


Salaam Anwar ...Just because something doesn't seem to contradict the Qur'an and seems correct to me doesn't make it correct from an Arabic viewpoint. I mean all of the above permutations don't seem to contradict the Qur'an but hey ...they all have very different meanings.

Anyway, I asked Wakas the question if you don't mind. Thank you for answering, but it doesn't help me much. No hard feelings though  ;D  Saba

Offline Anwar

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Re: prayer
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2014, 04:59:20 AM »
Salam Saba,

 :) . That was pretty snippy of you. Why would you react like that? I thought it would actually help for you to understand that it is okay to be open minded about interpretations and to accept any and all valid Classical Arabic interpretations that are logical and that fit into the larger context of the Qur'an. There is no need to be myopic about an interpretation, believing that there can only be one. I consider myself to be just as well researched on Classical Arabic grammar and meanings as Wakas. Wakas and I are familiar with each other. We don't always agree with each other on some larger issues but you can ask Wakas if that is also his impression of me. He may know me as progod as well.

Salam.

Offline QM Moderators Team

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Re: prayer
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 11:27:06 AM »
Anwar,

Your posts are appreciated. However can you please avoid personal jibes against other members of this forum, such as accusing others of "Playing games" or comments to others such as being "narrow minded and dogmatic". Please kindly remain conscious of forum policy 2(b).

You have identified yourself as progod. Thank you. We note your free-minds profile here and your website here which is confirmed here as you being the author whose mission is to "Promote revival and reclaim the culture for Christ".

You are very welcome on this forum. However, please be aware that this forum will be governed by different forum rules which are probably more stringent than say the free-minds.org forum.

Thank you for your consideration.

Offline Saba

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Re: prayer
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2014, 02:55:58 PM »
That was pretty snippy of you. Why would you react like that?

Nothing Snippy. All I said was that I asked the question of Wakas. Why do you need to answer a question I put to him because he is the one that offered the translation? Do you think he needs help? Don't take this personally, but I don't really care how researched you are of classical arabic grammar or how you compare with Wakas. Really don't care. I don't agree with Wakas's methods on many things, but having a quick look at free-minds after the mods post, i see you hold quite similar views to Wakas which I find wrong like 2 daily prayers. http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605933.0

Nothing personal, but if in future I ask a question of someone, I'd like them to answer.

Also next time, please don't call me 'myopic'! Thanx Saba

   

Offline Saba

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Re: prayer
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2014, 03:06:16 PM »
Salaam Anwar,

Now I have a question for you. I went through some of the links provided by the mods in the post above... I have to say that I am a little confused. Your site says "In Jesus name we pray, Amen." http://www.progod.org/prayer.htm

Yet you give the impression you are a Quranist....can you elaborate pls with regards your position re: theology so i can understand better where you are coming from? Thanx Saba

Offline Anwar

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Re: prayer
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2014, 05:21:06 PM »
Peace Saba,

I don't have a website anymore. I took down my progod site years ago. I just recently also took down my www.quranists.org and www.quranist.com sites. As I can see now, other people have quickly snatched up the domain names. I am not responsible for how they use those domain names and their sites. It seems that www.progod.org is now a Christian site. I hadn't checked on the domain name since I let it go. I have check on the quranist sites either. Last time I heard they were being auctioned off for quite a bit of money. You'll just have to get the word of mouth from the mods who are familiar with me, that is, in addition to talking to me as well.

Salam

Offline Saba

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Re: prayer
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2014, 12:19:09 AM »

Thank you for clarifying Anwar.

Offline good logic

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Re: prayer
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2014, 11:45:15 AM »
Greetings all.

If the following quote :" Last time I heard they were being auctioned off for quite a bit of money" is true; It is sad.

Are we buying and selling God s words using the internet? 

Surely God s words are free to all.  Those buying and selling, are going against the "very words" they are trading!

GOD bless you all.

Peace.

Offline Anwar

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Re: prayer
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 10:45:14 PM »


It's a domain name. It's not God's word. Also some people would impoverish themselves if they gave away all beneficial things for free. Let the wealthy give according to what he has and the poor according to what he has. I think that's why memorizing the Quran was such a big thing. Paper, ink, scribes and binding costs money too.

Salam.