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Offline Zack

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Your Input: The Islam and Christianity of the Future
« on: May 23, 2014, 04:42:15 PM »
I am writing this partly in response to another link http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1264.msg5907#msg5907 which was enquiring re how to view the previous scriptures. Relating to this, I want to write down in point form my thoughts how I see what a Holy Book based Islam and Christianity will look like in the future.

Before that, I want to mention 2 points in response to the posting link:

-   I believe the Qur’an is coherent and has a unified message with the previous Holy Books. Supposed doctrines that oppose each other between the Quran / Bible: (eg. Father / Son of God has been discussed in link http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1234.msg5850#msg5850) are more misinterpretations. In fact, the evidence clearly shows that translations now are now closer to the original manuscripts than the Torah, Zabur and Injil (Old and New Testament) at the time of Muhammad. Blatant mistranslation of words to support in particular a Trinitarian doctrine is no longer possible without being exposed (although still subtle double-meanings can be misleading).

-   One of the biggest underlying departures from scripture that has been held by Christianity and followed by Islam is that of “Replacement Theology”. For Christianity that meant: Christianity replaced Judaism as the true religion; Injil replaced the Torah; Greek replaced Hebrew; Rome replaced Jerusalem; Christians replaced Jews as God’s sole “Ummah”……..You can see how Islam followed: Arabic replaced Greek; Islam replaced Christianity; Qur’an replaced Injil; Mecca replaced Rome; Muslims replaced Christians… This thinking divides and destroys the planet and is not supported by any of the Holy Books. There is one community of Gods people, not two or three.  That is the religion of Abraham…. that religion is one of submission, whether one is Jew, Christian or Islamic label. Islam as a religion replacing Christianity wasn’t anything to do with Nabi Muhammad. Christianity replacing Judaism wasn’t anything to do with Nabi Isa.

In regards to the Islam / Christianity of the future:
a) The catholic creeds of the trinity will be done away with, and Christianity return to the “Shahadat Tauhid” of the Bible.
b) Islam re-acknowledge the Bible as scripture as per the Qur’an. From what I understand and have read from recent Islamic scholarship, the idea of corruption and rejection of scripture is far more recent that Islamic Secondary sources, even post 1000AD. This will include catching up on 1000 years of re-interpreting what the Torah and Injil says.
c) Islam re-acknowledges the death and resurrection of Isa. This again is starting to gain momentum amongst modern Islamic scholars. The idea of the substitution / or non-death of Isa on the cross is an earlier interpretation, maybe as early as the 8th century.  Understanding that the death of Isa on the cross was a central understanding of the “People of the Book” and of history, and yet it never being discussed  by Muhammad; yet a single verse being interpreted to change a central message of the Book endorsed by Muhammad has all sorts of problems.
d) It will become increasingly common for Christians to recognise Muhammad as a Prophet.
e) Islam re-embraces Isa as the figure that God spoke through in a distinct way, and shakes of its suspicion of the name.
f) Although remaining distinctive, a breaking down of the division between Muslim/Christian.

Anyway, I partly see beginning signs of things moving this way, and partly my belief that this is what you end up with when one follows the “quran message”. I would love to hear your thoughts....

Wasalam
Zack





Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Your Input: The Islam and Christianity of the Future
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2014, 02:46:36 PM »
Dear Zack,

As-salam alaykum

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. You have resonated many of my own sentiments on this matter.

If agreeable with you, I am happy to share your post with a wider audience on my own Facebook page to see if anyone would like to share any comments. My readership on Facebook is quite large and includes a good representation of wider society including academics from various countries and theological positions. Therefore, your thoughts would arguably be shared with those that may want to comment further, possibly from an academic perspective too.

If you are happy with this, please let me know how best to identify you / your post, so that readers can understand the background context e.g. ‘Christian’ who believes in the Quran's testimony or something similar.

I can always post the direct link back on the forum too so you can monitor any comments.

Regards,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Mubashir

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Re: Your Input: The Islam and Christianity of the Future
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2014, 01:58:29 AM »
Dear Zack

Re: "....c) Islam re-acknowledges the death and resurrection of Isa. This again is starting to gain momentum amongst modern Islamic scholars...."

I have not read any scholar so far who suggests that Jesus did die and was resurrected. What I find is that some suggest that although he was put on the cross, he did not die but recovered and healed.

As the Quran categorically rejects the notion of Jesus dying on the cross, I think this could be a sticky one to address. 

Many Christians are also beginning to distinguish between what Jesus preached and what Paul preached which may lead to some leaning more towards Jesus, in the future which may lead to Jesus being acknowledged as a Messenger with mighty powers, rather than God [One from God rather than God Himself].

Offline Zack

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Re: Your Input: The Islam and Christianity of the Future
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2014, 02:35:11 AM »

If agreeable with you, I am happy to share your post with a wider audience on my own Facebook page to see if anyone would like to share any comments. My readership on Facebook is quite large and includes a good representation of wider society including academics from various countries and theological positions. Therefore, your thoughts would arguably be shared with those that may want to comment further, possibly from an academic perspective too.

If you are happy with this, please let me know how best to identify you / your post, so that readers can understand the background context e.g. ‘Christian’ who believes in the Quran's testimony or something similar.

I can always post the direct link back on the forum too so you can monitor any comments.

Regards,
Joseph

Thank you Br Joseph. Yes please copy my post to your Facebook with the suggested back ground context from a "Christian who believes in the Quran's testimony"

I have commented on 1 or 2 other sites, it seems there are very few sites such as yours which attempts to put aside the tendency of answering through emotion, allegiance to dogma and tradition. I find quranmessage quite different.

Wasalam
Zack

Offline Zack

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Re: Your Input: The Islam and Christianity of the Future
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2014, 03:03:06 AM »

I have not read any scholar so far who suggests that Jesus did die and was resurrected. What I find is that some suggest that although he was put on the cross, he did not die but recovered and healed.  As the Quran categorically rejects the notion of Jesus dying on the cross, I think this could be a sticky one to address. 

Jesus, in the future which may lead to Jesus being acknowledged as a Messenger with mighty powers, rather than God [One from God rather than God Himself].

Thank you for your response. Re no Islamic scholars affirming the crucifixion as a historical reality, for starters the owner of this website I would consider an Islamic scholar (-:   . Beyond that, Abdullah Saeed, a leading Islamic scholar in his book Reading the Qur'an in the Twenty-First Century: A Contextualist Approach has a whole chapter on the history of Islamic interpretation in regards to the crucifixion, viewing the non-crucifixion as "reactionist interpretation", interpretation formed not due to the initial revelation, but due to a political situation. Beyond that, a modern Islamic scholar Muhammud Ayoub affirms the crucifixion.

These individuals (excluding Br.Joseph) would have an "eastern" rather than "western" view of the crucifixion. That means that  the spirit / Word that strengthened and worked through Jesus did not die, only his body did. All of the above give an academic basis for their views from the original text. I have seen 3 approaches of scholars to synchronise the Bible with the Quran re crucifixion. This has been mentioned at the link http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1035.msg4526#msg4526.

Wasalam
Zack