Author [EN] [PL] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: 7:172

Offline Zafreen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
7:172
« on: July 06, 2014, 03:57:46 AM »
Salam! Thank u all for ur answers. I have so many questions as I am new to understanding the emergence of hadith. Anyway, my question is that in 7:172 Allah says he asked us who our Lord is so we cant say otherwise in Akhirat. My question is what was the point of asking us that when we do not remember this?

Offline Sardar Miyan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
    • View Profile
Re: 7:172
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2014, 01:53:51 PM »
Salam Bro. Though every human being has said قالوبلا before being born but does it remember. Please don't try to understand Hadith as these are set Muslim stories written two hundred years after Exalted Prophet. Only read & understand Quran and follow. Thanks
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Zafreen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: 7:172
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2014, 04:58:59 PM »
Thank u but I didnt quite understand ur reply! Allah says in the Quran that we were all asked who our Lord is so that we cannot say we didnt know on the Day of Judgement. What is the point of having asked us when we dont remember this incident?

Offline Deliverance

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
    • View Profile
Re: 7:172
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2014, 07:21:46 PM »
Go to the Thread:"On the Soul" there we discussed this Ayat

Offline Zafreen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: 7:172
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 05:30:38 AM »
Thank u deliverance. I did a search but nothing came up.

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: 7:172
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 07:23:16 AM »
    Dear Zafreen,

    Wa alaikum assalam

    I have touched on this point in a few threads. 

    For example, in one of the threads I noted:

"...we had an existence at some location (or in some state) prior to our 'physical' birth. (Our physiological state is different from our spiritual state (nafs)). We took a primordial covenant with God at some point before our physical birth (7:172, see also 33:72). This is where our 'innate' belief of some kind of Creator comes from (our 'fitrah'). We also find a reminder of this in verse 57:8." [1]

There are two main points:

  • The primordial covenant in verse 7:172 forms part of our innate consciousness (fitrah) of a higher being / creator. This correct, upright (hanifan) nature (fitrata) of humankind is also mentioned in verse 30:30. We deny this reality only in haughtiness / arrogance.
  • It is part of volition and a trust that we all undertook which is why we are here being trialled. This is elaborated in the following thread [2] below:

I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] First life in the Heavens,Second life in Earth
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=116.msg299#msg299
[2] Trust to the Heavens, Earth and Mountains
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=85.msg225#msg225
[3] Does Paradise Already Exist?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1229.msg5734#msg5734

[/list]
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Zafreen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: 7:172
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 05:55:00 PM »
Yes thank u. Allah said they do not taste death beyond the first death. Who does not? On this Earth all living creatures taste death twice.

 On a side note to admin....i think the search button is temperamental. Sometimes nothig comes up and sometimes a lot of results show up when searching with the same words

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: 7:172
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 06:12:50 PM »
Yes thank u. Allah said they do not taste death beyond the first death. Who does not? On this Earth all living creatures taste death twice.


Dear Zafreen,

As-salam alaykum

I shared the above articles for the very reason that it provided you a comprehensive response (Insha'Allah) to any questions you may have on the topic. In the third link I shared with you above, I addressed the very verse that you hint at in your last post (44:56).

I shared:

Quote from: Joseph Islam
Verse 44:56 that you share simply cites a situation in paradise where the righteous will not feel death, other than the 'former' death that THEY HAVE experienced which brought them into paradise. Please kindly note that the phrase 'al-mawtata-l-ula' can easily be read as a reference to the 'previous', 'former' or 'erstwhile' death and not necessarily 'first' death as you have stated in your translation.

'Awwal' (ula) is a nuanced term and depending on context, can imply 'former' as in al-quruna-ula (i.e. former generations - 28:43) or 'al-suhufil'ula' (former scrolls - '20:133'). This nuance is often missed in translations but better understood in Arabic. Please note that the plural of 'awwal' awwalun is used throughout the Quran to describe former generations (e.g. 8:38).

This is also supported by the righteous souls that speak about their former death in verses 37:58-59 and the triumph (37:60) that they have received which will mean they will not die again and will enjoy felicity as a gift unfailing (Ata'an ghayra majdud - 11:108).

037.058-60
"Are we then not to die, except for our former death? and are not to be punished? Indeed, this surely is the attainment great"

[Please note how different translators translate verse 37:59 and the inconsistency at times with verse 44:56 and regards the word 'awwal'].

I hope this helps, God willing

Regards,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Zafreen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: 7:172
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 07:55:21 PM »
Thats better, thank u. I wish I could speak Arabic!

Offline Joseph Islam

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1858
    • View Profile
    • The Quran and its Message
Re: 7:172
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 08:02:06 PM »
Thats better, thank u. I wish I could speak Arabic!

You are most welcome sister, Alhumdolillah  :)
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell