My humble apologies!

[Sstikstof]

My humble apologies to all forum members as my knowledge was weak before that results of posting many arguments which went against many thoughts in here. Later I researched by myself & found matching. I passed through so many difficult situations in my personal life because of some sunni scholars only. Some say this, some say that, so many confusing opinions all around me grabbed my brain pretty bad that resulted confused opinions as output. Sometimes I decided to read quran by myself & re-build my religion with perfection. But for proper understanding someone needs to know arabic language which i don't know. that is where the lacking of mine. In the end, for Arabic interpretation, i gotta grab someone. I found at last joseph Islam's website so reliable. Thanks to all of you including Joseph Islam.

[maverick83pk]

You are most welcome brother! I, just like you, came out from bowels of traditional islam by the grace of Almighty! The transition to quran-centric islam was like breaking ideological hell loose on my peace of mind, but i persisted and prayed in all earnest to Allah and now after my own humble research and with His help i am at much ease and peace. Remember, there is no gain without pain!

[Star]

I totally understand your sentiments I've asked some dumb questions on this forum that I'd rather not bring up again. They were asked out of total confusion and a temporary lack of common sense. Sigh.

Anyway, it's totally fine

[Anjum]

Salam Sstikstof...

Me too had the same situations earlier......and was very much confused and disturbed...and my  life was like hell...like...i felt like being in a prison or something...coz of so many prohibitions and so on...I asked to Allah for guidance..and he blessed......and...Allah has blessed u too brother.....be thankful to God..that he has guided us in the right and relaxing path......Thanks to the forum members...for being patient with our questions and answering it on time......

[Sstikstof]

Salamin alaikum thanks all of you for replying my sentiments. We should enhance and publicize our unity and view and specially misconceptions of others for the sake of practicing correct religion. I'm not so familiar with how joseph Islam himself does so many efforts to spread this view outside of this website. But I think media is necessarily and we should not sit here at future. So that I personally can at least point someone easily that "look you were wrong and here is the proof". That's just because psychologically noone willing to read rather than love to watch and learn.

[Star]

Definitely true. I wish more people knew about this, but I don't really have the independence to spread the message as of right now.

Interestingly, the idea that hadiths hold no religious authority wasn't that shocking to me. I'd been slightly annoyed by hadiths from the start, and it made perfect sense that religion should be based on God's direct revelation only (along with our understanding and discussion, obviously). The thing that woke me up was the fact that I realized I knew practically nothing about my religion, except for ritualistic prayer, which I routinely avoided when I was younger. I had to learn more, and it was basically a process of starting from scratch. Hence my occasionally frantic posting on this forum previously.

[good logic]

Peace All.

Here is how to spread the message of GOD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YXINEYdnkY

This is also the message of Qoran.
GOD bless.
Peace.

[Sstikstof]

Today I have conversed with local IMAM about this issue. He agreed almost the things that have been shared here. He said the problem of most traditional muslims are facing is that they think whatever the prophet Muhammad did, is part of sunnah whether it is against quran or not & we must follow, that is the main problem of dividing. In this case for them, Scholar Javed Ahmed Ghamidi gives suitable solution to recognize what is actual sunnah & i prefer it to read with the view of traditionalists.

http://www.javedahmadghamidi.com/books/view/every_act_of_the_prophet_sws_is_a_sunnah

http://www.javedahmadghamidi.com/renaissance/view/principles-of-determining-the-sunnah

[maverick83pk]

Dear SStikof,

i agree with Ghamidi sb's point of view, with a little difference, sunnah is also subservient to Quran, and not equal to it.

Rest is 100% agreeable.

[Sstikstof]

Dear SStikof,

i agree with Ghamidi sb's point of view, with a little difference, sunnah is also subservient to Quran, and not equal to it.

Rest is 100% agreeable.

He showed evidence that masturbation is permissible. But in here, it ain't! Is that 100% agreeable?

[maverick83pk]

Dear SStikof,

Masturbation is allowed or not! It is a grey area, quran is explicitly silent about a practice millenia old. Anyway, it is better to err on the safe side, so using quran's implied message about staying away from fawahish, it is better to control one's self as much as possible, but if the situation becomes unbearable then i think it is okay.

Anyway, the main argument about practical sunnah that includes rituals of salat, hajj and fasting to be mainly uncorrupted is okay with me. This is what Joseph Islam also concurs with in his articles about difference between hadees and sunnah.

[maverick83pk]

I said "mainly uncorrupted" it means major portion of them are not corrupted, rest about the corrupted portions of these rituals, one can filter them out using "quranic lens", thus one wants to call it sunnah or "perpetual practical mass adherence of masses through generations" is still subservient to Quran and not equal to it.

[Sstikstof]

There are more differences between Javed Ahmed ghamidi & Joseph Islam's view. Masturbation was one example. Specifically in some issues, both showed hard & logical expressions, that made me confused who to choose. For example, Please note,

1. For masturbation Javed says masturbation is neither prohibited nor undesirable. Because of silence of Quran. Verses that can be suspected of that, have actually another interpretations. Fahisha definition given by the Quran itself for (eg, 17:32, 29:28 etc.). But Joseph islam prohibited masturbation by seeking the best meaning of the Quran.

2. Head Cover Is must for Javed ahmed ghamidi. Because He interpreted khimar as classical arabic which means not only conceal but head cover. And for khimar, he interpreted it from another historical source as in 24:31, "Al" is included which means "tell these believing women", In historical source, women already wore head cover, thats why may be God told them to cover chest only. But Joseph Islam said, No, it doesn't matter from where the cloth comes from, only chest covering is good interpretation for this verse.

3. For capital Punishment, Javed Ghamidi said, if you commit any crime & you already repented, but authority finds you so many years later, you still gotta suffer the punishment. But in here, someone says, if you repent, no punishment, even if you are found after many years later, you wont be punished, thats why God says "Illa">except word.

4. Javed Ahmed ghamidi believes that as quran is last scripture, it always tells us about sunnah as part of deen to be obyed as right form. He believes that "fill in the gaps" in quran must be filled with tawatur Sunnah practices. But joseph Islam said Opposite of it.

5. Javed Ahmed Ghamidi takes help from other sources to interpret various Quran verses. Joseph Islam doesn't .

And there are lots more..........

At the end, I myself am a normal human being. After having these differences, I gotta see other commentaries although I dont want to listen to them >>> Sunni, Shia, Salafi Views, Zakir NAyek views, Sufi Views, Wahabi Vews, Quranist views, Tabligi Views, Free-minds.org views, answer-christianity.com views and so on....

Sometimes I ask myself that is this a joke, or a Muslim Religion where i was born? At last I have decided to read Quran by myself & whatever interpretation comes in my head, God willing, I will accept without any question.

[maverick83pk]

Dear SStikof,

I was watching a debate between some mufti and ghamidi sahib on a tv show where ghamidi sahib did take the stance that head cover is not compulsory. Ghamidi sahib sometimes switchover as per my observations till date. Rest about other points you have raised, all is appreciated as long as one sticks to quran as guidance only, but what about the best interpretation? We will have to use our reason for that after listening to all sides from quran-centric spectrum of interpretations. After all God will only judge as per our capacity and intellect that He gave to us in proportions He deemed fit for us, but that is, if we take Quran as the sole religious guidance and nothing else!

I was mainly concerned about the points where JI and JG appear to agree and that is the ritualistic aspects of salat, hajj and fasting to hold far more authenticity than ahadees corpus.

That was my point!

[Hassan A]

Salaam Sstikof,

You said:

There are more differences between Javed Ahmed Ghamidi & Joseph Islam's view.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

Our job as Muslims is to ALWAYS vigorously scrutinize/critically analyzing any and all views to see whether they're in accordance with the truth and with the general message of the Quran. It remains our duty as believers/Muslims to seek the best meaning from what we hear by scrutinize and evaluating all arguments/views (regardless of whom they're made by) and afterwards follow ‘what is best’ (39:18) (i.e. which argument presents the best possible evidence/facts and is compatible with logic and reason).

The Quran acknowledges that we (as mere humans) will/may derive different meanings from it, and states that those who have understanding are the ones who follow the best meaning in it:

"Those who listen to the Word and follow the best meaning in it; those are the ones whom God has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding." [Qur’an 39:18]

As the above verse clearly insinuates: some meanings are better than others. And as humans we naturally will derive multiple meanings from each verse, but only the best are to be validated and followed—this will demonstrate righteousness of character.

So with respect to the views you've alluded to which brothers Joseph Islam and Javed Ahmed Ghamidi differ on, it remains your/our responsibility to vigorously scrutinize/evaluate/analyse each view then accept whichever view is in accordance with the message of the Quran (and in accordance with logic and reason). And then put our faith/trust in God.

Peace.