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Offline yahya

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67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« on: August 27, 2016, 02:08:18 PM »
Assalam alikum I was just wondering what does this verses mean because it makes it sound like Allah uses stars or planets as missiles but we know shooting stars are meteors and they are not stars or planets

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 04:34:11 PM »
Allah is mentioning about Shaab-e- Saqib to throw on Shiateen who try to intrude heavans.
Shaab-e- Saqib is firery target on Shayteen.
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline yahya

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 02:30:37 PM »
Yea but the verse 67:5 says we made them the stars or planets if you know what I mean and of course meters and comets etc are not planets or stars and stars don't move

Offline Nura

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2016, 07:02:53 PM »
Salam Yahya

67:5

And certainly We have beautified the heaven nearest with lamps, and We have made them (as) missiles for the devils, and We have prepared for them punishment (of) the Blaze.

Here the Arabic word that has been translated as ' with lamps' ( in some other translations as luminary astral objects) is 'bimaṣābīḥa'

37:6
Indeed, We [We] adorned the sky [the world] with an adornment (of) the stars.

Here the Arabic word that has been translated as 'stars' is 'l-kawākibi'
 
The Arabic word for planet is 'kawkab' and star can be translated as ' najma' as well as 'kawkab' but most popular word for a star is 'najma' and for a planet is 'kawkab'

In 37:6 the Arabic is 'kawkab' and God says He has decorated the sky with these 'kawkabs' which is essentially correct if we take 'kawkab' to be stars/ planets or both. This verse does not talk about shooting stars.

In 67:5 the word is ' bimasabiha' , and the Arabic word for ' shooting star/ meteor' in Arabic is 'sihab'. I have posted about the formation of Arabic words and roots before in another post. In arabic, words are assigned meanings from their roots and in both the words ' bimasabiha' (where ' bi' basically means 'with', which means sky decorated with  ' sabiha') and ' sihab' have same roots 'sin-ha -ba'. Words that are formed using this roots mean meteor/shooting star .

I hope this answers your question.


Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Nura

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 07:24:54 PM »
Salam All

And on a related note, I have noticed often that quite a few of us are very eager to prove the scientific correctness of the verses of the Quran. This I believe was never the purpose of scripture; to use human understanding of science or basically flawed human understanding of God's created laws as a criterion to judge scripture. Science was never authorised by God as the criterion . We were asked to use reason/intellect. But that does not automatically equal to science. I do not intend to offend anyone when I say this, but science has its limitations. When we choose to overlook this we hurt noone but ourselves.

How can science be a criterion to judge scripture or God? When He is the source of both Science and Quran? If, we had been informed by Allah that science is the ultimate criterion to judge Him by or His Scripture by,then I would have never objected. Many has left the fold of Islam because they cannot reconcile their scientific understanding with incidences in the Quran, e.g. Virgin birth of Jesus, Moses' stick turning to a snake, Jesus resurrecting the dead etc. Science has no explanations for these and has claimed these as untrue stories. But would you believe science or Quran? And say my understanding and science may have deficiencies but God and His message is beyond any flaw or deficiency?


This approach of making science the ultimate benchmark has its own loopholes. We are not a fully rational creation, we have emotions and desires as well. This is how we were created. So, the path to understanding our creator cannot be via reason alone. We have to use all our gifts/abilities, ( reason, intellect, logic, emotion, doubt etc). We are not a completely rational creation and approaching God and Scripture using ration alone will lead us astray and there is ample proof of that around us. Tread very carefully!

May God bless us all  :)

Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline wanderer

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 08:01:05 PM »
Nura, I have to strongly disagree with you on this one. I accept the literal occurance of miracles as stated in the Quran-- and I also believe wholeheartedly in modern science as a way to better understand God's creation. The two are not mutually exclusive. Miracles are just that-- a miraculous event authorized by God. They do not 'circumvent' the scientific laws that this universe is governed on. The Quran CLEARLY STATES, repeatedly, that REASON is how you can better understand Scripture, so I don't know what you are talking about. The train of thought that you are leading on is dangerously irrational and close-minded, in my humble opinion.
Regards,
wanderer
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline Nura

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 08:07:00 PM »
Dear Wanderer

I did not say Science cannot be used. I said every gift we have has to be used including logic, ration, science, emotion unseen parallel universe. Science cannot explain the miracles I mentioned. Please explain jinns, angels, virgin birth using modern science to me! Can u please read posts carefully before jumping into conclusions! I did not say science cannot be used. Putting undue emphasis on science alone has its loopholes. U do not have to agree with me. But do not misquote me or say that I said something which I did not. Please reread my previous post. I said science cannot be used as the ultimate criterion. Reason does not automatically equal science!
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline yahya

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 08:13:00 PM »
Thanks I see what you mean but I put miracle verse away from verses what sound like science for example I never put science next to jesus rasing the dead etc but the verses what sound like science like this one I do but if allah was making this verse sound like a miracle then I would never put science on this verse jazzakkallah but thanks

Offline wanderer

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 08:13:16 PM »
Dear Nura_
I did read your previous post carefully. I'm sorry if I seemed harsh. What I was responding to was your assertion that the Quran did not authorize science, reason, and logic as a way of understanding scripture, and the implication that there, science is "un-Quranic", which as a person considering a career in the sciences, upset me. I'm sorry if I took your post the wrong way.
Regards,
wanderer
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline Nura

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 08:15:32 PM »
Dear wanderer

According to science there is not enough reason to believe or disbelieve in God! Science is not enough to prove or disprove the existence of God and that is a fact. Belief in God is not an entirely scientific belief. A lot of knowledge, knowledge from science as well as other fields help us conclude that there is a God. Not science alone. 
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline Nura

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 08:21:08 PM »
Dear wandere

No I did not say do not use Science, I said science has limitations. I said Science as we know today as a subject was never authorised by God as a criterion. Well, God did not tell us that believe what only science can explain and do not believe what science cannot explain. Current scientific knowledge cannot explain a lot of things in the Quran. Are u suggesting we should not believe in them? If we take that approach, we cannot believe in God, science cannot explain who God is. But Quran has. Just like the number nineteen and mathematics was not mentioned as an authorised way of judging the Quran. We can see what happens when we get carried away by a criterion, number 19, which was never authorised by God. Now 19ers believe two verses were added to Quran just to fit their understanding.  Knowledge is not only science, it has other branches, my point was all are important. My point was never to make science or anything as the ultimate criterion. Current science will not help u understand the incidents I mentioned
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline wanderer

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 08:25:34 PM »
I concur with your view wholeheartedly. Science and reason are one of the many "tools" we can use to better understand scripture. To answer your question, science can neither confirm or deny the existence of God, angels, or jinn, because science only looks at the natural, material world, which, such subjects do not reside in.
Regards
wanderer
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)

Offline Nura

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2016, 08:29:26 PM »
Dear wanderer :)

It is ok. No harm no foul. I get a bit upset when I am misquoted. I am sorry if I hurt u :(
Not all those who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien

Offline yahya

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2016, 08:33:11 PM »
Assalam alikum sorry to bother you both so what does allah mean by stars in the lowest heaven because if it means our solar system there is only one star and that is the sun sorry to keep bothering g but I do appreciate it its just gets a bit confusing what some of the verses mean

Offline wanderer

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Re: 67:5 and 37:6 shooting stars or planets
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2016, 08:35:18 PM »
Salaam Nura:) No harm done. However, I would like to know why you think that science was.  never authorized by the Quran. The Quran has many verses saying that reason leads to truth, and that a lack of reason leads to superstition and paganism.
Regards
wanderer
Rather, We dash the truth upon falsehood, and it destroys it, and thereupon it departs. And for you is destruction from that which you describe. (21:18)