Justifying Faith Through a Secular Framework

[wanderer]

First time I've ever tried to mount a theological defense before. Like and follow:
https://divergingthoughtsblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/03/justifying-faith-through-a-secular-framework/
Regards
wanderer

[Hamzeh]

Peace Wanderer

Brother Masha'Allah you put your thoughts into words very nicely.

I also see how you've started your skepticism towards the secular party.

Now bro does the modernist philosophy already have a law pertaining to dress code? They don't allow things that would disturb the public somehow. Nudity i dont think is legal. Ive seen arrests actually made for that.

But regarding the Islamic law, does it really call on all people dressing a certain way or just the believing men and women?

I mean I would obviously be saying that a Islamic country should indeed follow the laws of the Quran, but what is the dress code imposed on those who don't believe? Same as those who believe?

Is not the believing man and women should lower there eyes and not be decieved by the disbelievers even if they allure?

How have the previous communities outcome been served when they transgressed beyond bounds? And by whome?

Also what is your thoughts on the niqab?

It was certainly a great article bro

Peace

[Hamzeh]

Also wouldn't nudity in public be more like part of corruption in the land? What kind of punishment would be imposed? It would be possibly depending on the situation. And possibly less than lets say fornication or prostitution?

These are just some questions kinda related but I think would give a better understanding of whats expected as part of law in a society and what is more pertaining to a individual on a believing level.

Peace

[wanderer]

Hi Hamzeh-
I do feel the Quran mandates the hijab, for the reasons listed in my article. Lowering the eyes is a two-way ideal: Believers' should avoid indecency, and indecency should be avoided by the wider society. Please note that the people of Lot were not only destroyed for committing lewd acts, they also committed them loudly and proudly in full view of the public.
Despite this, breaking the dress code, or even going full on nude, would not nearly fit the criteria for 'corruption in the land', but expect heavy fines.
Some places in the West still have laws against public nudity, others do not.
I think it is perfectly fair to apply a basic standard of decency across a community  (both believer's and nonbelievers). I do not feel this is an infringement on their rights.
As for the niqab, based on 33:59, I don't believe it is recommended, but it certainly wouldn't be banned either.
Regards
wanderer

[Hamzeh]

Salamu Alykum Wanderer

Thank you for response brother.

As I do believe that the Quran has given the opportunity to those in power to regulate safety and prevent corruption in the land. This goes for both believers and non-believers. I would think that nudity would effect the society in a whole. The penalty would really need to be considered under each case differently.

Those in authority would have to define exactly what is permitted and what is not as the Quran does not get into detail about public dress code to all people.

I believe the Quran had defined the dress code for believing women. For example if the Quran does mandate the hijab(which I do not think it explicitly does) this would only be to believing women.

The verses you had shown in your article are imposed on the believing women no different than other obligations imposed on believers like food laws, hajj, prayer and so on.

I do agree with your statement "I think it is perfectly fair to apply a basic standard of decency across a community  (both believer's and nonbelievers). I do not feel this is an infringement on their rights."

Yes a basic one would need to be more defined by those in authority, and would possibly be different from that of the believing people. The question is what is considered fair without causing harm while giving the freedom of choice? This might give the right of way to dress codes that are still inappropriate in the eyes of the believers. But is this why the believers are expected to lower there eyes. Tight cloth with chest not completely covered etc

Based on 33:59 believing women should be dressed in a certain fashion and be recognizable. I believe it keeps the modesty in check and also the level of safety in place.

If the right of covering was given to the point of not recognizing a person, can you imagine what would happen in society where people who wanted to plot evil could do. They could cover under the personality of a more pious person while causing corruption.

So placing a ban on not being recognizable would seem to also cover the aspect of protection and safety in the land.

I do understand from the views of those who wear the niqab and some Muslims that it is more pious acts towards the Lord. They do not view it as any other way only that they are trying to be better Muslims. But this shows the lack of understanding of the verse 33:59.

I'm not saying that they should take it off either. As this would also wreck havoc amongst those who see it as a religious duty. But it should be gradually and sincerely be known to them that it is not part of the religion and that God expects believing women to actually be recognizable.

At the end there needs to be a balance for sure.

Peace

[wanderer]

"Yes a basic one would need to be more defined by those in authority, and would possibly be different from that of the believing people. The question is what is considered fair without causing harm while giving the freedom of choice?"
Yes, a very pertinent observation Hamzeh. The idea that all members of a society have to abide by a basic dress code, while a heavier one is enforced on Muslims' specifically is an interesting one. I'll have to give more thought to it.
Regards
wanderer