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Offline Athman

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The Place of Summon for Prophet Musa (pbuh)
« on: July 02, 2018, 11:24:54 AM »
Dear Br. Joseph,

As-salaam alaikum,

I wish to present my understanding of the place where Prophet Musa (pbuh) was summoned and thereby share what ‘thwur’ also seems to indicate from the Qur’anic usage as also coupled with ‘sinai.’ I as a result find some inconsistencies with your analysis [1] of the term ‘thwur.’ Would you kindly clarify where necessary.

"
From my perspective, the place where Prophet Musa (pbuh) perceived a fire, by the Mount side - ‘janibi thwuri’ (28:29) was a Holy valley referred to as ‘Thuwa’ (20:12). See also (79:16). It was from this place that Prophet Musa (pbuh) heard God’s voice from the RHS direction at the blessed spot (28:30). Some of the signs were initiated here. As to whether this is the same venue where the covenant in (20:80), the ‘miqat’ in (7:143) for the Law and another one in 7:155 (2:55) took place is something that could be of a separate discussion. This is with notice that the 1st one is described as ‘RHS’ of the mount - ‘janibi thwuri al-aymana’ (20:80), while the 2nd one as ‘western’ side - 'bijanibi al gharbiyya' (28:44) or ‘Mount’ side (janibi al-thwur) -28:46.

Thus the Qur’an identifies the position where Prophet Musa (pbuh) was summoned as being at the Holy valley of Thuwa (20:12). On the other hand, the Qur’an interchanges ‘thwur’ with ‘jabal’ in the verses captured below to implicate the synonymy of the two terms, especially as understood classically, as for instance as ‘a mountain, or any mountain that produces trees’ [2].

“And when We raised the mountain (al-jabala) above them (fauqahum) as if it was a dark cloud and they were certain that it would fall upon them, [and Allah said], ‘Take what We have given you with determination and remember what is in it that you might fear Allah.’ ” (Qur’an, Al-A’raf 7:171)

“And when We took your covenant, [O Children of Israel, to abide by the Torah] and We raised over you (fauqakumu) the mount (al-thwura), [saying], ‘Take what We have given you with determination and remember what is in it that you might fear Allah.’ ” (Qur’an, Al-Baqarah 2:63)

See also 2:93 and 4:154

Apart from the one connection of ‘thwur’ and ‘siniin’ in 95:2, another one occurs in 23:20 as captured below. A tree sprouting from Mount Sinai could possibly be linked to that olive (zaitun) one mentioned just before it in 95:2 or that one in 28:30 (mubarakat mina shajara). It could also possibly be that referred to in 24:35 (shajarati mubarakati zaituna).

“And [We brought forth] a tree issuing from Mount Sinai (thwuri saina-a) which produces oil and food for those who eat.” (Qur’an, Al-Mu’minun 23:20)


" [2]

Regards,
Athman.

REFERENCES:
[1]. MOUNT SINAI - BEHIND THE TRANSLATIONS
http://quransmessage.com/articles/tur%20FM3.htm
[2]. Miqat in 7:142
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2548.0


Offline Student

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Re: The Place of Summon for Prophet Musa (pbuh)
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 05:46:35 AM »

Salamun Alayka,
Br Athman,

You made a keen observation, Mashallah. I would like to get some clarification too from both of you, inshallah

Al-Tur
وَإِذْ أَخَذْنَا مِيثَاقَكُمْ وَرَفَعْنَا فَوْقَكُمُ الطُّورَ (2:63)
وَإِذْ أَخَذْنَا مِيثَاقَكُمْ وَرَفَعْنَا فَوْقَكُمُ الطُّورَ (2:93)
وَرَفَعْنَا فَوْقَهُمُ الطُّورَ (4:154)

Al-Jabal
وَإِذْ نَتَقْنَا الْجَبَلَ فَوْقَهُمْ كَأَنَّهُ ظُلَّةٌ (7:171)

(no Al particle) Tur Saina/Sineen
وَشَجَرَةً تَخْرُجُ مِنْ طُورِ سَيْنَاءَ (23:20)
وَطُورِ سِينِينَ (95:2)


I can relate your observation about Al-Jabal & Al-Tur synonymy but also noteworthy is - when al-Jabal apears (in 7:171) the word nataqna (shook) is used (not ra'fana (raised) as in 2:63, 93 & 4:151). Given Quran's precision word choice are these two different events, perhaps?
Also, I see you're taking Tur and al-Tur to be one and the same thing. However, the al particle is absent when it was used with Saina/Sineen. Aren't these two different then?

Hope this may bring to the top and draw attention of Sir Joseph to your year old inquiry :)
Thanks,
~ Student

Offline Athman

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Re: The Place of Summon for Prophet Musa (pbuh)
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2019, 07:16:01 PM »
Dear Student,

Peace to you,

Sorry for my late attention. I will briefly respond to what appears to me to be your concerns. I have been quite busy with some other commitments elsewhere. I will give some more elaboration some other time where possible and where necessary.

You respectfully noted:

…when al-Jabal apears (in 7:171) the word nataqna (shook) is used (not ra'fana (raised) as in 2:63, 93 & 4:151). Given Quran's precision word choice are these two different events, perhaps?

Possibly yes. However, in my opinion, to assert such a possibility, it must strongly and cogently be proven the case and not contextually the obvious position of those passages relating to an event at a particular point in time. I would not bet accuracy of a whole event that is contextually portrayed in both the Quranic passages upon a difference in a single word used especially when others do relate.

I quote:

However, the al particle is absent when it was used with Saina/Sineen. Aren't these two different then?

I do admit that the reference of ‘thwur’ in both 23:20 and 95:2 is different from its reference in the other verses with respect to its morphological aspect owing to the definite article ‘al.’ However, I would respectfully not take that as a cue to distinguishing between terms rather distinguishing between two morphological usages of the same root word.

With regards to functionality, it can be argued that in 23:20 and 95:2, ‘thwur’ has been indefinitely employed to generally refer to a well-known typical mountain (95:2) from which sprout out certain trees (23:20) while in the other verses, it has been used definitely by virtue of the article ‘al’ to relate to a particular such-like mountain associated with a particular event in the past specifically associated with the particular community under address - People of the Book (2:53, 65; 7:169-170).

Hopefully that shortly helps.


Regards,
Athman.