We call our Lord, The Merciful; then how can we support these...

[Mohammed]

Dear All,
Assalamu 'alaikum

I  request you to watch these videos before you purchase any animal products which are produced commercially. (or products which contain animal products)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u80_IrSILI4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utPkDP3T7R4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrGQTyrIFLA

[Mohammed]

The verses 6:118,119 &121 does not mention slaughtering specifically, so

'on which God's name has been remembered' may also mean Fair Treatment throughout farming as well as during slaughtering. [God's name-The Merciful, so 'remembering Gods name' may refer to kind treatment to animals?]

Diary
Artificial Insemination -Cow will not get the approach of its male partner,
no male-female mating communication no natural mating, instead human hand/special devices deposit the sperm
after delivery in the growing stages, usually calf will not get enough approach of its mother as in natural systems, no proper care from mother and no proper time for mother-child communication/ love- may be for the whole life time of the dairy cows!

Egg
Genetic Manipulation & selective breeding -Hens (Living beings) into Heavy Duty egg producing units -almost for the whole life time of these creatures.

-trespasses against Natural systems.

[Duster]

'on which God's name has been remembered' may also mean Fair Treatment throughout farming as well as during slaughtering. [God's name-The Merciful, so 'remembering Gods name' may refer to kind treatment to animals?]

Shalom / peace.... how did you get to that conclusion? Do you have any evidence please? .....

Also what do you think of these articles?

Slaughtering of animals - Correct method of sacrifice.....

http://quransmessage.com/articles/slaughtering%20of%20animals%20-%20the%20correct%20method%20of%20sacrifice%20FM3.htm

Thakaytum ...

http://quransmessage.com/articles/thakaytum%20FM3.htm

[Mohammed]

Shalom / peace.... how did you get to that conclusion? Do you have any evidence please? .....

peace Duster,

I don't know what this term exactly refers to, so I consider it in this way

Also what do you think of these articles?

Slaughtering of animals - Correct method of sacrifice.....

http://quransmessage.com/articles/slaughtering%20of%20animals%20-%20the%20correct%20method%20of%20sacrifice%20FM3.htm

Thakaytum ...

http://quransmessage.com/articles/thakaytum%20FM3.htm

quote

Do you think halal certification (if animals are treated in a good manner i.e. no cruelty) =approved by God?
Most of the halal certified slaughter houses will have traditional Muslims for doing the process. But in a traditional Muslim view, meat will become halal by just pronouncing/uttering the name of God while slaughtering (many traditional Qur'an translators translated 6: 118, 119 & 121 incorrectly). Qur'an used the root dh-k-r in 6: 118, 119 & 121 which basically means remembrance/bear in mind, not just uttering. The word used for the Swalat in Qur'an also has the same root (e.g. 20:14). I believe that no any such certification can assure the state of one's mind. And the person doing this job will be slitting hundreds of animals/birds within few hours (i.e. continuously, for long time they are doing only this cutting job!). Will they be able to slaughter each animal/bird properly?.
And this is applicable to any food with animal based (slaughtered) ingredients like gelatin (e.g. foods like marshmallows, jams, jellies,cakes, ice creams etc.

source https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610499.0

[Duster]

I am not referring to the current slaughter methods in the industry.......i can think of plenty of things wrong with that. ...

I guess I just really want to ask you a simple question .... do you believe that ziba (slaughter) by pronouncing the name of Allah is the correct method as per the Qur'an...》》?

[Mohammed]

Yes, slaughter by remembering God's name /God's mercy on us and doing the process accordingly (e.g. preparing the animal for slaughter without harm)

[Duster]

Yes, slaughter by remembering God's name /God's mercy on us and doing the process accordingly (e.g. preparing the animal for slaughter without harm)

Thanks a lot for the straight answer 

[Mohammed]

peace,

Chickens raised for flesh

naturally, birds have daytime and night, but poultry bird's are 24 hrs in light. Imagine, how it will be if you are in such an environment...

quote
Chickens are inquisitive, interesting animals who are as intelligent as mammals such as cats, dogs, and even some primates. They are very social and like to spend their days together, scratching for food, taking dust baths, roosting in trees, and lying in the sun.

But chickens raised on factory farms each year in the U.S. never have the chance to do anything that's natural or important to them. A baby chick on a factory farm will never be allowed contact with his or her parents, let alone be raised by them. These chickens are deprived of the chance to take dust baths, feel the warmth of the sun on their backs, breathe fresh air, roost in trees, and build nests.
https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/factory-farming/chickens/

[Truth Seeker]

It is truly sad watching the situation we have today regarding animal welfare. More about this is being highlighted to the public so awareness is increasing.

When you mention the poultry farms, the overcrowded conditions are atrocious like you mentioned how the chickens are kept in indoors throughout their existence.

Because of these farms, I made a decision many years back to only buy free range eggs just to do my small part.

I think that more attention does need to be given on how they are looked after to improve their living conditions but unfortunately it is a supply game.

[Mohammed]

(many traditional Qur'an translators translated 6: 118, 119 & 121 incorrectly). Qur'an used the root dh-k-r in 6: 118, 119 & 121 which basically means remembrance/bear in mind

peace Duster, and all,

Although "to remember, bear in mind," etc., seems to be the basic meaning, I'm unsure about the exact implications of "dh-k-r" in the above verses, as its meaning can vary depending on the context (e.g., 21:36, 21:60, etc.). Ultimately, it's up to the believer to determine the best fitting interpretation for 6:118,119, & 121 and decide on halal certification/labels.

The verses 6:118,119 &121 does not mention slaughtering specifically, so

'on which God's name has been remembered' may also mean Fair Treatment throughout farming as well as during slaughtering. [God's name-The Merciful, so 'remembering Gods name' may refer to kind treatment to animals?]

Also, I think the verses do not deal with /address manipulation and exploitation of animals (making unfair/unnatural use of).

@everyone, peace,

While I haven't been super active on this forum, I did participate in some discussions over the past few years. As I've been thinking about online interactions, I want to take a proactive approach. If, at any point during my participation, I said or did anything that was inappropriate or disrespectful, I sincerely apologize.
My intention has always been to contribute positively to the forum and I look forward to continuing to learn and grow here.
Best regards,

[Mohammed]

For concerns about animal welfare and ethical conduct, there are numerous verses that we can relate to,
Examples:
Who created the death/lifelessness and the life to test you which of you is better in deeds (67:2)
..so race/surpass each other in doing good deeds (2:148, 5:48)
..So whoever is expecting his Lord's meeting, so he makes/does righteous deeds (18:110)
And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the record; then to their Lord they will be gathered. (6:38)
..like that We manipulated/subjugated it for you, so that you may be grateful (22:36)

[Mohammed]

To conclude, I interpret verses 6:118, 119, 121, etc. refer to an obligation to acknowledge, ideally, from before the slaughtering takes place, (being grateful for providing the animal as sustenance 22:28, 34, 36, see also 22:40, 24:36, 76:25 etc.)

[Mohammed]

One argument is that these phrases are about invoking God's name before eating, not before the animals are slaughtered.

Please note the verb form used,
6:121 وَلَا تَأْكُلُوا /And do not eat (2nd person masculine plural)
لَمْ يُذْكَرِ /has not been remembered/mentioned (3rd person masculine singular)

[fireheart47]

Animal welfare is disconcerting, and will not be unanswered. We must voice our concerns and seek to better our situation with mercy and compassion on even those who are involved in the slaughter. God is the one who rectifies all in the end.

I wouldn't be surprised if hormones and stress of the animals can affect humans, especially developmental stages of human life. Also, cleanliness of meat is important.

What is important too is cleanliness of words, and actions. How will people change if our activism is viewed as radical and dangerous? It will only further convince others of falsehoods, because we are naturally inclined to defy and oppose, and often need encouragement and kindness in order to come to accordance.

I grew up eating meat and diary, and I feel as if it played a positive role in my development. Yet, as I aged I began to suffer from health problems, especially in the gut. I used to drink a lot soda as a kid, and it also affected my teeth. When I became more independent I ate a lot of chicken wings, American-Chinese food, and other fried and candied meats, which weren't healthy.

In my first botany course, our professor explained to us the role of amino acids in building protein in the body. He taught us we need 9 amino acids to produce protein in our body, these are considered the essential for survival, yet not optimal. He taught us the easiest way to consume it is through animal products like meat, dairy, and fish (ex: milk chocolate bar better for survival than dark chocolate bar).

He taught us we can find them in certain plants (soy, amaranth), yet also can receive them from mixing different plant foods (legumes [beans,peas, etc] and grains [wheat, oats, rice, etc]). He taught that it is necessary to learn how to properly prepare food, especially beans (glycosides), so they don't poison you or cause harm. There are many kinds of beans to learn how to identify visually, and many kinds of vegetables, so one must study it seriously. He taught that it is better to have a varied diet to receive as many amino acids and other nutrients which are not considered essential but beneficial.

My brother has sought to eat healthier for his health and has a strong will, which has helped me also eat healthier.

I myself currently eat a pescatarian diet (fish, dairy, no meat) and sometimes make exceptions. We have a pressure cooker, which helps cook lentils, after we soak and rinse them. We eat it with rice, and mix of other vegetables, and with olive oil. Recently I've soaked, rinsed and cooked lima beans (Phaseolus lunatus), which add texture and more protein to our meals. We also like eating squash with our meals. Our mother recently made us deviled eggs, which is a recipe from our grandmother.

Not everyone has these opportunities, I'd like to support somehow.

The Qur'an is a great source of wisdom about these topics. One chapter which has such wisdom is Surah al-An'am.

Surah al-An'am 6:95

۞ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ فَالِقُ ٱلْحَبِّ وَٱلنَّوَىٰ ۖ يُخْرِجُ ٱلْحَىَّ مِنَ ٱلْمَيِّتِ وَمُخْرِجُ ٱلْمَيِّتِ مِنَ ٱلْحَىِّ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمُ ٱللَّهُ ۖ فَأَنَّىٰ تُؤْفَكُونَ

Indeed, Allah is the One Who causes seeds and fruit stones to sprout. He brings forth the living from the dead and the dead from the living. That is Allah! How can you then be deluded ˹from the truth˺?

6:141

۞ وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِىٓ أَنشَأَ جَنَّـٰتٍۢ مَّعْرُوشَـٰتٍۢ وَغَيْرَ مَعْرُوشَـٰتٍۢ وَٱلنَّخْلَ وَٱلزَّرْعَ مُخْتَلِفًا أُكُلُهُۥ وَٱلزَّيْتُونَ وَٱلرُّمَّانَ مُتَشَـٰبِهًۭا وَغَيْرَ مُتَشَـٰبِهٍۢ ۚ كُلُوا۟ مِن ثَمَرِهِۦٓ إِذَآ أَثْمَرَ وَءَاتُوا۟ حَقَّهُۥ يَوْمَ حَصَادِهِۦ ۖ وَلَا تُسْرِفُوٓا۟ ۚ إِنَّهُۥ لَا يُحِبُّ ٱلْمُسْرِفِينَ

He is the One Who produces gardens—both cultivated and wild1—and palm trees, crops of different flavours, olives, and pomegranates—similar ˹in shape˺, but dissimilar ˹in taste˺. Eat of the fruit they bear and pay the dues at harvest, but do not waste. Surely He does not like the wasteful.

6:142

وَمِنَ ٱلْأَنْعَـٰمِ حَمُولَةًۭ وَفَرْشًۭا ۚ كُلُوا۟ مِمَّا رَزَقَكُمُ ٱللَّهُ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا۟ خُطُوَٰتِ ٱلشَّيْطَـٰنِ ۚ إِنَّهُۥ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّۭ مُّبِينٌۭ

Some cattle are fit for labour, others are too small.1 Eat of what Allah has provided for you and do not follow Satan's footsteps. Certainly, he is your sworn enemy.

An analysis of the word الانعم (Al-An'am) and other related words in an etymological dictionary like wiktionary.org reveals the importance of livestock in Islamic tradition. And we know the Israelites valued cows, so much so they strayed and worshipped one (Surah Al-Baqarah). The Qur'an introduces a variety of other foods, which when eaten together with meat promotes a varied diet. I believe the Qur'an seeks to preserve the wisdom that God is the provider of it all.

[fireheart47]

Since plants don't move, they need chemicals in order to protect themselves and they can be dangerous. It's not something to mess around with foolishly, in my opinion.

Another observation on this matter is the cultural differences and climactic differences. Polar climates lack the plant diversity for a plant-rich diet, and often require crops to be shipped internationally to achieve such a thing. This can affect freshness and accessibility. It also involves a whole lot of other political, and economic topics.

Livestock animals in these climates also eat plants, and some plants can be dangerous for animals too. Agro-forestry is a methodology to take care of the landscape intelligently with trees for the sake of animals, and also to diversify farm products. Gardening for animals!

And also important to respect wild things, wildlife and those things which are not directly benefiting us. Yet it benefits us to be aware of how it is all connected and truly benefiting us (ex: pollinators).

May God guide us to know how to take care of the things which are important. May God show us all the truth beyond the information we share with each other.