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Hi Saba,

Yes I have read the articles. Somehow, i do not understand how Br. Joseph is able to discard the concept of hadith but use non islamic sources to proof that early muslims prayed. I dont think the christians cared less of what godly ritual muslims practiced those days to be included in their writings.

but thanks anyway for your input.

Hi Saba,

Thanks for replying. But as much as Aidid and his ideas are being pushed aside ( not that i am agreeing ) I believe the argument provided by edip too has very little merit in it. he agrees and disagrees. he also did not provide any information on the word salat or even sola. there is not study done to clear the confusion around this two words. What i've read from numerous blogs and sites too do not provide any good comprehensive study to clear out the misuse of the arabic languange.

Sorry, but i am not the type to just ignore something just because it does not suit the masses or because i do not understand arabic enough. I used to believe in hadiths  but not anymore. i used to be a sunni but not anymore. all from studying and searching for a better understanding of truth.

It is easy to discard ideas. but provide a comprehensive study and proof before discarding.

what is sola?
what is salat?
does SLT exist as a word used by God in the quran?
or does SL exist in the quran?

same with zakaa and zakat.

how can non arabs possibly get the full truth when there are people giving meaning to a word in arabic thats not its original? ( i find this possible)

now, you can say its a waste of my time and ignore it. but i will only do so when there is a proper understanding of how this guy is cheating us.

salam Saba and have a pleasent day.

Hi Saba,

Thanks for replying. But as much as Aidid and his ideas are being pushed aside ( not that i am agreeing ) I believe the argument provided by edip too has very little merit in it. he agrees and disagrees. he also did not provide any information on the word salat or even sola. there is not study done to clear the confusion around this two words. What i've read from numerous blogs and sites too do not provide any good comprehensive study to clear out the misuse of the arabic languange.

Sorry, but i am not the type to just ignore something just because it does not suit the masses or because i do not understand arabic enough. I used to believe in hadiths  but not anymore. i used to be a sunni but not anymore. all from studying and searching for a better understanding of truth.

It is easy to discard ideas. but provide a comprehensive study and proof before discarding.

what is sola?
what is salat?
does SLT exist as a word used by God in the quran?
or does SL exist in the quran?

same with zakaa and zakat.

how can non arabs possibly get the full truth when there are people giving meaning to a word in arabic thats not its original? ( i find this possible)

now, you can say its a waste of my time and ignore it. but i will only do so when there is a proper understanding of how this guy is cheating us.

salam Saba and have a pleasent day.

Salam All,

I came across a study done by Aidid Safar which says that Sola/Salat does not mean physical worship of God but a commitment/responsibility towards God.


I am not arabic, so any effort trying to search into what he says is a bit difficult. He has brought forth some examples of the word used throughout the quran.

Reason why i am posting this is because there are people on this forum with good command of arabic. and i would like to know if there is any merit in this study. here's the link to his page and others. http://aididsafar.com/  and http://mentalbondageinthenameofgod.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/sol-laa-commitments-is-not-ritual-prayer/

What do you guys think of this?

salam everyone.

Thank you for all the insight.

It is suicide to stand up against the sunni majority in Malaysia. One must practice, belief in secrecy.

Additionally,

It is obvious, that by idolizing our prophet, we end up lost and further from tauhid. Most muslims need to dress and behave like the prophet based on sayings in the hadith just to think that they are pious people. What an intelligent way for the devil to infiltrate the faith. by using the prophet and his so called sayings and actions. Iblees does not have to convince mankind that God does not exist, In fact, Iblees advocates that God does exist, and he has a religion. thus, all this different types of religions sprout out from nowhere. and all fight to be called the actual religion of God. at this point, Iblees' job is done and he only has to look at how humans fight each other in the name of God and religion.

If we just focus on the quran, we wont run far from truth. and if we dont know certain details from the past(not mentioned in the quran) there is no need to look for it elsewhere, it wont benefit us and our faith towards God, if the quran wasnt sufficient in the first place.


Salam

Dear Danial,

This may not be applicable to all, but i personally feel that the fact that we have the quran today is sufficient in one's faith towards God, his angels, prophets, his books and the last day. what muhammad did in his personal time, who he married etc will not help me as a believer. Historical accounts are not valid in portraying a certain person or event. So, Stories about prophets that are based on verbal accounts are nullified. Our duty as human beings is to keep hold to God's messages and law.

Salam

Thanks All for your valuable insights.

peace be upon all of you.

Salam All,

The problem with understanding this particular verse is that, before the bowing down to adam event took place, God had already told the angels that he was going to place a vicegerent on earth with the angels questioning  God if He was going to place someone that will shed blood and spread mischief on earth. but then, the second event which caused adam to be thrown out of heaven was when he ate from the forbidden fruit. Did God not already determined before adam ate the fruit that he was to be placed on earth? Then why the need of adam to sin against God in order for this to happen? Hence causing all humans up till now, to suffer the consequences of that single action by adam and eve? are the sins of our father's really our's to shoulder?

Dear Daniel,

I may not be worthy of answering your questions. But from my 7 or 8 years researching about islam, i came to a conclusion that it is pointless taking stories of Muhammad from sources other than the quran as legitimate. First, one has to study historical islam and how all those hadiths attributed to the prophet came to be.

To do a study on the evolution of Islam we need to break down this evolutionary process into many periods.

The purest form of islam came during the first 4 caliphs after muhammad's death. There were no man made insertions or stories attributed to him at this time.

Do read an article from the link below, maybe you will find it helpful.

http://www.malaysia-today.net/islam-was-a-process-of-evolution/

Dear Readers and in particular Bro. Joseph

Recently there has been an issue with the above mentioned subject in my beloved country, Malaysia. I am well aware of the article by brother Joseph and have read it many times with total agreement.

But there is something i think i need some help on.

1- Does God need muslims to protect the kalimah? or to go further, to protect Allah?
2- If christians use the word Allah in the bible, Malays are worried they might brainwash younger muslim toddlers to be trinitarians. to put it simpler, might pose a threat to the akidah.
3- majority of malay muslims have this idea that the God of the bible is totally different from Allah because of the trinity. does this mean that the malay muslims are softly committing shirk for believing that its not Allah the christians are committing kufr?


there might be many more questions i just cant think of right now, but i would certainly like for the members to comment.

Peace be upon all of you.

Thank you Borthers Ismail and Sadar,

Your replies are very informative, i am looking at possible influences from hindhuism into the typical islamic  haj ritual.

Many of us are aware that the way the pilgrimage is carried out is utter nonsense and holds no merit if filtered through the quran hence why there might be external influences with. and with mecca blossoming into a huge modernized city, i cant help but wonder why muslims should be burdened to spend ten's of thousands of their money and be put on to a waiting list of 20 to 30 years to carry out what God has commanded?

Thanks dear sardar

your reply is much appreciated.

Salam brother daniel.

and welcome to the forum. looking forward to further discussions.

I would like to see where this discussion goes.