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#51
General Discussions / Wasiyyat: A Timeless Principle...
Last post by abdul.samad - February 16, 2025, 02:04:23 PMWasiyyat: A Timeless Principle and Its Relevance Today
The Quran's guidance on wasiyyat (will) remains universally applicable, serving as a key mechanism for addressing specific familial or individual needs. Far from being contradictory, the provisions for wasiyyat and inheritance laws in the Quran work harmoniously, with wasiyyat taking precedence where it is made and inheritance laws applying only in its absence. Below is a structured argument explaining this balance:
1. Quran's Command on Wasiyyat
The Quran commands in Al-Baqarah 2:180:
> "It is prescribed for you that, when death approaches any of you, if he leaves wealth, he should make a wasiyyat (will) for the parents and close relatives, fairly. This is a duty upon the righteous."
This verse establishes the principle of wasiyyat as an obligation, ensuring justice and fairness for parents and close relatives based on specific needs and circumstances.
It reflects Allah's recognition of diverse familial dynamics where individual discretion may be necessary to address unique situations.
2. Wasiyyat and Inheritance Laws are Complementary
The inheritance laws in An-Nisa 4:11-12 provide a default framework for wealth distribution in the absence of wasiyyat. These laws are often misunderstood as overriding wasiyyat, but they are complementary in practice:
1. If wasiyyat is made:
The wasiyyat takes precedence and is executed first, provided it adheres to Quranic principles of fairness and does not harm rightful heirs.
Wasiyyat allows individuals to address specific needs, such as:
Supporting parents who may require extra care.
Allocating additional resources to children with special needs.
2. If no wasiyyat is made:
The inheritance laws in An-Nisa 4:11-12 come into effect, ensuring a just and default division of wealth among heirs.
These laws act as a safety net, preventing disputes and guaranteeing that every heir receives their rightful share.
Thus, there is no contradiction; instead, the Quran provides a layered framework to balance individual discretion and communal justice.
3. Why Wasiyyat is Still Relevant Today
Unique Family Circumstances: Families often face situations where default inheritance laws may not fully address their needs:
Elderly parents may require financial support beyond their prescribed share.
A child with a disability or significant financial burdens might need extra assistance.
Adopted children, who are not direct heirs under default inheritance laws, can be supported through wasiyyat.
Flexibility and Justice: Wasiyyat provides the flexibility to address these unique situations while ensuring fairness.
Charitable Contributions: It also allows individuals to allocate a portion of their wealth for societal benefit, such as supporting charitable causes.
4. Addressing Claims of Contradiction
Critics may argue that the inheritance laws in An-Nisa 4:11-12 contradict the command for wasiyyat in Al-Baqarah 2:180. This argument arises from a misunderstanding of the Quran's layered approach:
1. Priority of Wasiyyat:
The Quran explicitly states in An-Nisa 4:11: "After fulfilling any wasiyyat made or debt left behind." This demonstrates that wasiyyat takes precedence over default inheritance laws.
2. No Abrogation:
There is no abrogation or revocation of wasiyyat. Instead, the inheritance laws serve as a fallback mechanism, ensuring fairness when no wasiyyat is made.
3. Complementary Nature:
Wasiyyat addresses unique, individualized needs, while inheritance laws provide a universal framework for justice. Together, they create a holistic system for wealth distribution.
5. The Universal Applicability of Wasiyyat
The command for wasiyyat is not limited to pre-Islamic Arabia but is a timeless principle designed to accommodate diverse family situations. Its relevance today includes:
Addressing unique familial needs.
Supporting non-heirs like adopted children or dependents.
Allocating wealth to societal or charitable causes.
The Quran provides this flexibility to ensure fairness, justice, and compassion in wealth distribution, adapting to the needs of every generation.
Conclusion
Wasiyyat and inheritance laws in the Quran are not contradictory but complementary.
Wasiyyat allows for personal discretion and fairness, while inheritance laws ensure a default framework of justice.
Only if no wasiyyat is made does the inheritance law apply, making the system balanced, practical, and universally relevant.
This layered approach demonstrates the Quran's emphasis on compassion, fairness, and justice in wealth distribution, ensuring harmony and equity in every family context.
The Quran's guidance on wasiyyat (will) remains universally applicable, serving as a key mechanism for addressing specific familial or individual needs. Far from being contradictory, the provisions for wasiyyat and inheritance laws in the Quran work harmoniously, with wasiyyat taking precedence where it is made and inheritance laws applying only in its absence. Below is a structured argument explaining this balance:
1. Quran's Command on Wasiyyat
The Quran commands in Al-Baqarah 2:180:
> "It is prescribed for you that, when death approaches any of you, if he leaves wealth, he should make a wasiyyat (will) for the parents and close relatives, fairly. This is a duty upon the righteous."
This verse establishes the principle of wasiyyat as an obligation, ensuring justice and fairness for parents and close relatives based on specific needs and circumstances.
It reflects Allah's recognition of diverse familial dynamics where individual discretion may be necessary to address unique situations.
2. Wasiyyat and Inheritance Laws are Complementary
The inheritance laws in An-Nisa 4:11-12 provide a default framework for wealth distribution in the absence of wasiyyat. These laws are often misunderstood as overriding wasiyyat, but they are complementary in practice:
1. If wasiyyat is made:
The wasiyyat takes precedence and is executed first, provided it adheres to Quranic principles of fairness and does not harm rightful heirs.
Wasiyyat allows individuals to address specific needs, such as:
Supporting parents who may require extra care.
Allocating additional resources to children with special needs.
2. If no wasiyyat is made:
The inheritance laws in An-Nisa 4:11-12 come into effect, ensuring a just and default division of wealth among heirs.
These laws act as a safety net, preventing disputes and guaranteeing that every heir receives their rightful share.
Thus, there is no contradiction; instead, the Quran provides a layered framework to balance individual discretion and communal justice.
3. Why Wasiyyat is Still Relevant Today
Unique Family Circumstances: Families often face situations where default inheritance laws may not fully address their needs:
Elderly parents may require financial support beyond their prescribed share.
A child with a disability or significant financial burdens might need extra assistance.
Adopted children, who are not direct heirs under default inheritance laws, can be supported through wasiyyat.
Flexibility and Justice: Wasiyyat provides the flexibility to address these unique situations while ensuring fairness.
Charitable Contributions: It also allows individuals to allocate a portion of their wealth for societal benefit, such as supporting charitable causes.
4. Addressing Claims of Contradiction
Critics may argue that the inheritance laws in An-Nisa 4:11-12 contradict the command for wasiyyat in Al-Baqarah 2:180. This argument arises from a misunderstanding of the Quran's layered approach:
1. Priority of Wasiyyat:
The Quran explicitly states in An-Nisa 4:11: "After fulfilling any wasiyyat made or debt left behind." This demonstrates that wasiyyat takes precedence over default inheritance laws.
2. No Abrogation:
There is no abrogation or revocation of wasiyyat. Instead, the inheritance laws serve as a fallback mechanism, ensuring fairness when no wasiyyat is made.
3. Complementary Nature:
Wasiyyat addresses unique, individualized needs, while inheritance laws provide a universal framework for justice. Together, they create a holistic system for wealth distribution.
5. The Universal Applicability of Wasiyyat
The command for wasiyyat is not limited to pre-Islamic Arabia but is a timeless principle designed to accommodate diverse family situations. Its relevance today includes:
Addressing unique familial needs.
Supporting non-heirs like adopted children or dependents.
Allocating wealth to societal or charitable causes.
The Quran provides this flexibility to ensure fairness, justice, and compassion in wealth distribution, adapting to the needs of every generation.
Conclusion
Wasiyyat and inheritance laws in the Quran are not contradictory but complementary.
Wasiyyat allows for personal discretion and fairness, while inheritance laws ensure a default framework of justice.
Only if no wasiyyat is made does the inheritance law apply, making the system balanced, practical, and universally relevant.
This layered approach demonstrates the Quran's emphasis on compassion, fairness, and justice in wealth distribution, ensuring harmony and equity in every family context.
#52
General Discussions / THE QUR'AN PROHIBITS SLAVERY
Last post by abdul.samad - February 16, 2025, 02:00:19 PMTHE QUR'AN PROHIBITS SLAVERY
The Qur'an 47:4 effectively prohibited the practice of keeping war captives as slaves:
The verse states:
"So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]." (Qur'an 47:4)
This verse outlines the treatment of war captives in clear terms:
1. Release with Grace: Captives may be freed without any compensation, as an act of mercy.
2. Ransom for Release: Captives may also be freed in exchange for compensation, which could be monetary or negotiated terms.
Prohibition of Enslavement in War:
The verse does not provide an option to keep captives as slaves. Instead, it limits the options to either releasing them out of goodwill or accepting ransom for their release. This omission of enslavement as a permissible course of action can be interpreted as a direct prohibition of enslaving war captives.
This is a significant departure from pre-Islamic Arab practices where captives were routinely enslaved. By restricting the options to freedom or ransom, the Qur'an promotes the humane treatment of prisoners and aligns with broader Qur'anic principles of justice and mercy.
Reinforcement Through Other Verses:
1. Equality of Humans:
The Qur'an emphasizes human dignity and equality: "And We have certainly honored the children of Adam..." (Qur'an 17:70)
2. Fakku Rakaba (Freeing the Neck):
The Qur'an frequently highlights the virtue of freeing slaves as an act of righteousness:
"But he has not attempted the steep path. And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the steep path? It is the freeing of a slave..." (Qur'an 90:11-13)
3. Breaking Oaths and Emancipation:
The Qur'an prescribes freeing a slave as expiation for breaking oaths, emphasizing accountability and promoting emancipation. For instance:
"Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. Its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people...or freeing a slave." (Qur'an 5:89)
4. Empowering Slaves Seeking Freedom:
The Qur'an advocates for the emancipation of slaves who seek freedom and demonstrates the ability to sustain themselves:
"And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess—then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness..." (Qur'an 24:33)
5. Sadaqah (Charity) Allocated for Liberation:
Zakat (charity) funds are directed towards freeing slaves:
"Zakah expenditures are only for the poor, the needy, and those employed to collect [it], and for bringing hearts together [for Islam], and for freeing captives..." (Qur'an 9:60)
6. Marriage with Enslaved Individuals:
The Qur'an permits marrying slaves under specific conditions, indicating their human dignity and freeing whereby from slavery:
"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and female slaves..." (Qur'an 24:32)
7. Exclusive Servitude to Allah alone
"It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture, authority, and prophethood, and then he would say to the people, 'Be servants of me instead of Allah.' Rather, [he would say], 'Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied.'" (Qur'an 3:79)
Exclusive servitude to Allah prohibits human enslavement: If even prophets are forbidden from demanding servitude, it implies that no human being has the right to enslave or dominate another, aligning with the Qur'anic principle of equality and freedom..
Conclusion:
The Qur'an's teachings, especially in 47:4, combined with its emphasis on freeing slaves, supporting their emancipation, and affirming human dignity, provide a clear framework against slavery. These principles align with the Qur'anic message of justice, equality, and the liberation of all humans from subjugation, making it evident that the Qur'an prohibits slavery.
The Qur'an 47:4 effectively prohibited the practice of keeping war captives as slaves:
The verse states:
"So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]." (Qur'an 47:4)
This verse outlines the treatment of war captives in clear terms:
1. Release with Grace: Captives may be freed without any compensation, as an act of mercy.
2. Ransom for Release: Captives may also be freed in exchange for compensation, which could be monetary or negotiated terms.
Prohibition of Enslavement in War:
The verse does not provide an option to keep captives as slaves. Instead, it limits the options to either releasing them out of goodwill or accepting ransom for their release. This omission of enslavement as a permissible course of action can be interpreted as a direct prohibition of enslaving war captives.
This is a significant departure from pre-Islamic Arab practices where captives were routinely enslaved. By restricting the options to freedom or ransom, the Qur'an promotes the humane treatment of prisoners and aligns with broader Qur'anic principles of justice and mercy.
Reinforcement Through Other Verses:
1. Equality of Humans:
The Qur'an emphasizes human dignity and equality: "And We have certainly honored the children of Adam..." (Qur'an 17:70)
2. Fakku Rakaba (Freeing the Neck):
The Qur'an frequently highlights the virtue of freeing slaves as an act of righteousness:
"But he has not attempted the steep path. And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the steep path? It is the freeing of a slave..." (Qur'an 90:11-13)
3. Breaking Oaths and Emancipation:
The Qur'an prescribes freeing a slave as expiation for breaking oaths, emphasizing accountability and promoting emancipation. For instance:
"Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. Its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people...or freeing a slave." (Qur'an 5:89)
4. Empowering Slaves Seeking Freedom:
The Qur'an advocates for the emancipation of slaves who seek freedom and demonstrates the ability to sustain themselves:
"And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess—then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness..." (Qur'an 24:33)
5. Sadaqah (Charity) Allocated for Liberation:
Zakat (charity) funds are directed towards freeing slaves:
"Zakah expenditures are only for the poor, the needy, and those employed to collect [it], and for bringing hearts together [for Islam], and for freeing captives..." (Qur'an 9:60)
6. Marriage with Enslaved Individuals:
The Qur'an permits marrying slaves under specific conditions, indicating their human dignity and freeing whereby from slavery:
"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and female slaves..." (Qur'an 24:32)
7. Exclusive Servitude to Allah alone
"It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture, authority, and prophethood, and then he would say to the people, 'Be servants of me instead of Allah.' Rather, [he would say], 'Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied.'" (Qur'an 3:79)
Exclusive servitude to Allah prohibits human enslavement: If even prophets are forbidden from demanding servitude, it implies that no human being has the right to enslave or dominate another, aligning with the Qur'anic principle of equality and freedom..
Conclusion:
The Qur'an's teachings, especially in 47:4, combined with its emphasis on freeing slaves, supporting their emancipation, and affirming human dignity, provide a clear framework against slavery. These principles align with the Qur'anic message of justice, equality, and the liberation of all humans from subjugation, making it evident that the Qur'an prohibits slavery.
#53
General Discussions / *Understanding Suffering: A Qu...
Last post by abdul.samad - February 16, 2025, 01:57:45 PMUnderstanding Suffering: A Quranic Perspective on Life's Trials
While suffering, tragedies, and injustices are part of life, they operate within a larger framework of divine justice, moral responsibility, and eternal recompense. These elements are designed with profound wisdom and purpose, reflecting a balance between natural laws, human freedom, and spiritual growth. Below is a structured explanation of why the world must remain as it is, supported by Quranic verses, logical reasoning, and real-world examples.
1. The Workings of Natural Laws under Taqdeer
Deformities, illnesses, or tragedies arise due to natural causes governed by God's set laws. These occurrences are not random or punitive but part of the universe's order.
Quranic Support:
"We created everything according to a measure (taqdeer)." (Quran 54:49)
"And We bring down water from the sky according to a fixed measure (taqdeer)." (Quran 23:18)
Logical Reasoning: A hurricane, for example, is the result of atmospheric conditions governed by natural laws. Without such processes, life on Earth would not sustain. Similarly, contrasts like health and illness provide meaning to human experiences.
2. Natural Laws Make Suffering Inevitable
Cause and Effect: The universe's laws, such as gravity and biology, ensure order and predictability. However, they also lead to inevitable outcomes like natural disasters or disease.
Example: A landslide caused by gravity and erosion is not arbitrary but follows natural law.
Dependence on Contrast: Concepts like joy are meaningful only in the presence of sorrow. Without such contrasts, human life would lose depth and richness.
3. The Misuse of Human Free Will
Humans are unique among God's creations because they are endowed with free will, enabling them to choose between good and evil. This freedom inevitably brings the potential for moral wrongdoing.
Quranic Support:
"Do as you will; your deeds are being watched by Allah." (Quran 41:40)
"Man can only get what he strives for." (Quran 53:39)
"Indeed, Allah does not wrong the people at all, but it is the people who are wronging themselves." (Quran 10:44)
Logical Reasoning:
Example: If humans lacked the ability to choose evil, actions like compassion or kindness would have no moral significance.
4. Suffering as a Test and Opportunity for Growth
Suffering serves as a test to develop human character, patience, and gratitude. It also reminds us of life's transience and the reality of the Hereafter.
Quranic Support:
"We will surely test you with fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives, and fruits. But give glad tidings to those who are patient." (Quran 2:155)
"Indeed, We created man in hardship." (Quran 90:4)
"And We test you with evil and with good as a trial; and to Us, you will be returned." (Quran 21:35)
Practical Example: Overcoming illness often leads to greater appreciation of health and strengthens resolve.
5. Redemption and Recompense in the Hereafter
For those who suffer unjustly, God promises ultimate justice and rewards in the Hereafter.
Quranic Support:
"Whoever follows My guidance will neither fear nor grieve." (Quran 2:38)
"On that Day, no soul will be wronged at all, and you will not be recompensed except for what you used to do." (Quran 36:54)
"Indeed, the patient will be given their reward without account." (Quran 39:10)
Practical Example: A parent who loses a child but remains steadfast is promised immense rewards in the Hereafter.
6. Human Responsibility to Address Suffering
Humanity is tasked with alleviating suffering and promoting justice, aligning with divine guidance.
Quranic Support:
"Whoever saves a life, it is as though he has saved all mankind." (Quran 5:32)
"And let there arise from you a nation inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong." (Quran 3:104)
Practical Example: Humanitarian efforts to combat poverty, disease, and injustice reflect this responsibility.
7. Pain as a Trigger for Positive Change
Suffering often motivates individuals to reflect, reform, and adopt better lifestyles.
Quranic Support:
"And We tested them with good [times] and bad that perhaps they would return [to Us]." (Quran 7:168)
Practical Example: A financial crisis might inspire better spending habits and reliance on Allah.
8. Fostering Empathy and Societal Connections Through Suffering
Hardships bring people together, fostering unity and mutual care.
Quranic Support:
"And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression." (Quran 5:2)
"They give food, in spite of their love for it, to the needy, the orphan, and the captive." (Quran 76:
Practical Example: Communities unite to provide aid during natural disasters, strengthening societal bonds.
9. Elevation of Rank in the Hereafter for Those Who Suffer
Those who endure suffering with patience are promised higher ranks in paradise.
Quranic Support:
"Indeed, the patient will be given their reward without account." (Quran 39:10)
Practical Example: Martyrs, or those who endure chronic illness with patience, achieve elevated spiritual ranks.
*Conclusion: The Most Balanced World*
1. A world without suffering or evil is logically impossible and devoid of meaning:
2. Natural laws necessitate suffering as a byproduct of order.
3. Free will requires the potential for moral evil.
4. Growth, innovation, and purpose arise from facing challenges.
5. Perfect justice and balance are ultimately realized in the Hereafter.
The presence of suffering reflects a purposeful and balanced system where natural laws, human actions, and divine wisdom coexist to fulfill higher objectives. Humans are called to alleviate suffering, trust in God's ultimate wisdom, and align with His guidance to achieve spiritual and societal harmony.
While suffering, tragedies, and injustices are part of life, they operate within a larger framework of divine justice, moral responsibility, and eternal recompense. These elements are designed with profound wisdom and purpose, reflecting a balance between natural laws, human freedom, and spiritual growth. Below is a structured explanation of why the world must remain as it is, supported by Quranic verses, logical reasoning, and real-world examples.
1. The Workings of Natural Laws under Taqdeer
Deformities, illnesses, or tragedies arise due to natural causes governed by God's set laws. These occurrences are not random or punitive but part of the universe's order.
Quranic Support:
"We created everything according to a measure (taqdeer)." (Quran 54:49)
"And We bring down water from the sky according to a fixed measure (taqdeer)." (Quran 23:18)
Logical Reasoning: A hurricane, for example, is the result of atmospheric conditions governed by natural laws. Without such processes, life on Earth would not sustain. Similarly, contrasts like health and illness provide meaning to human experiences.
2. Natural Laws Make Suffering Inevitable
Cause and Effect: The universe's laws, such as gravity and biology, ensure order and predictability. However, they also lead to inevitable outcomes like natural disasters or disease.
Example: A landslide caused by gravity and erosion is not arbitrary but follows natural law.
Dependence on Contrast: Concepts like joy are meaningful only in the presence of sorrow. Without such contrasts, human life would lose depth and richness.
3. The Misuse of Human Free Will
Humans are unique among God's creations because they are endowed with free will, enabling them to choose between good and evil. This freedom inevitably brings the potential for moral wrongdoing.
Quranic Support:
"Do as you will; your deeds are being watched by Allah." (Quran 41:40)
"Man can only get what he strives for." (Quran 53:39)
"Indeed, Allah does not wrong the people at all, but it is the people who are wronging themselves." (Quran 10:44)
Logical Reasoning:
Example: If humans lacked the ability to choose evil, actions like compassion or kindness would have no moral significance.
4. Suffering as a Test and Opportunity for Growth
Suffering serves as a test to develop human character, patience, and gratitude. It also reminds us of life's transience and the reality of the Hereafter.
Quranic Support:
"We will surely test you with fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives, and fruits. But give glad tidings to those who are patient." (Quran 2:155)
"Indeed, We created man in hardship." (Quran 90:4)
"And We test you with evil and with good as a trial; and to Us, you will be returned." (Quran 21:35)
Practical Example: Overcoming illness often leads to greater appreciation of health and strengthens resolve.
5. Redemption and Recompense in the Hereafter
For those who suffer unjustly, God promises ultimate justice and rewards in the Hereafter.
Quranic Support:
"Whoever follows My guidance will neither fear nor grieve." (Quran 2:38)
"On that Day, no soul will be wronged at all, and you will not be recompensed except for what you used to do." (Quran 36:54)
"Indeed, the patient will be given their reward without account." (Quran 39:10)
Practical Example: A parent who loses a child but remains steadfast is promised immense rewards in the Hereafter.
6. Human Responsibility to Address Suffering
Humanity is tasked with alleviating suffering and promoting justice, aligning with divine guidance.
Quranic Support:
"Whoever saves a life, it is as though he has saved all mankind." (Quran 5:32)
"And let there arise from you a nation inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong." (Quran 3:104)
Practical Example: Humanitarian efforts to combat poverty, disease, and injustice reflect this responsibility.
7. Pain as a Trigger for Positive Change
Suffering often motivates individuals to reflect, reform, and adopt better lifestyles.
Quranic Support:
"And We tested them with good [times] and bad that perhaps they would return [to Us]." (Quran 7:168)
Practical Example: A financial crisis might inspire better spending habits and reliance on Allah.
8. Fostering Empathy and Societal Connections Through Suffering
Hardships bring people together, fostering unity and mutual care.
Quranic Support:
"And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression." (Quran 5:2)
"They give food, in spite of their love for it, to the needy, the orphan, and the captive." (Quran 76:
Practical Example: Communities unite to provide aid during natural disasters, strengthening societal bonds.
9. Elevation of Rank in the Hereafter for Those Who Suffer
Those who endure suffering with patience are promised higher ranks in paradise.
Quranic Support:
"Indeed, the patient will be given their reward without account." (Quran 39:10)
Practical Example: Martyrs, or those who endure chronic illness with patience, achieve elevated spiritual ranks.
*Conclusion: The Most Balanced World*
1. A world without suffering or evil is logically impossible and devoid of meaning:
2. Natural laws necessitate suffering as a byproduct of order.
3. Free will requires the potential for moral evil.
4. Growth, innovation, and purpose arise from facing challenges.
5. Perfect justice and balance are ultimately realized in the Hereafter.
The presence of suffering reflects a purposeful and balanced system where natural laws, human actions, and divine wisdom coexist to fulfill higher objectives. Humans are called to alleviate suffering, trust in God's ultimate wisdom, and align with His guidance to achieve spiritual and societal harmony.
#54
Discussions / Another hadith methodology fla...
Last post by Wakas - February 03, 2025, 05:53:24 PMIt is commonly claimed that all the companions of the prophet were reliable/trustworthy, or some hadith scholars say only some are and it is determined on an individual basis.
However in the 1st fitna (civil war) there was allegedly tens of thousands of companions fighting and killing each other.
Narrated by Abu Bakrah:
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
"When two Muslims fight each other with their swords, both the killer and the one who is killed will be in Hell."
The companions asked, "O Messenger of Allah, this is understandable for the killer, but why the one who is killed?"
The Prophet replied, "Because he was eager to kill his companion."
Reference:
Sahih al-Bukhari (Book 87, Hadith 29 / Hadith 31 in some editions) - Sahih Muslim (Book 1, Hadith 113) - need to verify this.
So if they believe in the above hadith this means tens of thousands of companions are going to hell.... so how can they take hadith from them? Was one side right and one side wrong? Both wrong? Does God send reliable/trustworthy Muslims to hell? I dont recall a Traditional Muslim scholar saying many companions are in hell - how do they reconcile it?
So this seems to conflict with their methods.
1st fitna e.g. battle of the camel
Ali et al V Aisha et al
From chatgpt:
The **Battle of the Camel**, fought in 656 CE near Basra, was one of the pivotal battles of the **First Fitna** (the first Islamic civil war). The battle was between forces loyal to **Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib** and those led by **Aisha bint Abi Bakr**, supported by **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah** and **Zubair ibn al-Awwam**, two prominent companions of Prophet Muhammad. Here's a list of notable figures who participated on both sides:
### **Forces of Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib:**
1. **Ali ibn Abi Talib** – Fourth Caliph and cousin/son-in-law of Prophet Muhammad (commander of the army).
2. **Hasan ibn Ali** – Son of Ali and grandson of Prophet Muhammad.
3. **Husayn ibn Ali** – Son of Ali and grandson of Prophet Muhammad.
4. **Ammar ibn Yasir** – Veteran companion of the Prophet and staunch supporter of Ali.
5. **Malik al-Ashtar** – Trusted general and close ally of Ali.
6. **Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr** – Son of Abu Bakr and loyal supporter of Ali.
7. **Qays ibn Sa'd ibn Ubadah** – Governor of Egypt under Ali and military commander.
---
### **Forces of Aisha, Talha, and Zubair:**
1. **Aisha bint Abi Bakr** – Widow of Prophet Muhammad and daughter of Abu Bakr (she played a key political role but did not fight physically).
2. **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah** – Prominent companion of the Prophet and early convert to Islam (killed in the battle).
3. **Zubair ibn al-Awwam** – Cousin of Prophet Muhammad and one of the ten promised Paradise (left the battlefield before the main clash but was later killed).
4. **Abdullah ibn al-Zubair** – Son of Zubair and grandson of Abu Bakr, fought bravely to protect Aisha.
5. **Marwan ibn al-Hakam** – Former Umayyad official, fought against Ali's forces, reportedly responsible for shooting Talha.
6. **Umm al-Qirfa's descendants** – Some tribal leaders from Quraysh and allied tribes.
---
### **Key Points to Remember:**
- **The battle was named after Aisha's camel**, which she rode during the confrontation, becoming the focal point around which the fiercest fighting took place.
- **Zubair ibn al-Awwam withdrew** from the battle after a conversation with Ali, recalling the Prophet's prophecy about Zubair fighting unjustly against Ali. However, he was later killed in an unrelated incident.
- **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah was mortally wounded**, reportedly by an arrow shot by Marwan ibn al-Hakam, despite being on the same side, due to political grudges.
The **Battle of the Camel** involved thousands of participants from various tribes and regions, but historical sources focus on key figures, particularly prominent companions of Prophet Muhammad and tribal leaders. Here's a more **exhaustive list** of notable participants, divided by their allegiances:
---
## **Forces of Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib** (The Caliphate Army)
- **Ali ibn Abi Talib** – Commander-in-chief, fourth Caliph.
- **Hasan ibn Ali** – Son of Ali, Prophet Muhammad's grandson.
- **Husayn ibn Ali** – Son of Ali, Prophet Muhammad's grandson.
- **Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah** – Son of Ali from Khawla bint Ja'far (not Fatimah's son).
- **Ammar ibn Yasir** – Senior companion, loyal supporter of Ali.
- **Malik al-Ashtar al-Nakha'i** – Fearless military commander, close to Ali.
- **Qays ibn Sa'd ibn Ubadah** – Chief of the Ansar, governor of Egypt under Ali.
- **Adiyy ibn Hatim al-Tai** – Famous for his generosity pre-Islam, supporter of Ali.
- **Ashtar ibn Qais al-Kindi** – Commander from Yemen.
- **Sahl ibn Hunayf** – Veteran companion, played a key role in Basra.
- **Ubaydullah ibn Abbas** – Ali's cousin, fought bravely in the battle.
- **Abdullah ibn Ja'far al-Tayyar** – Nephew of Ali, son of Ja'far ibn Abi Talib.
- **Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr** – Son of Abu Bakr, staunch supporter of Ali.
- **Hujr ibn Adi al-Kindi** – Loyal follower of Ali, known for piety.
- **Sa'sa'ah ibn Suhan** – Orator and supporter from Bahrain.
- **Abdullah ibn Abbas** – Cousin of the Prophet and Ali, renowned scholar.
- **Abu Ayyub al-Ansari** – Veteran of many battles, supporter of Ali.
---
## **Forces of Aisha, Talha, and Zubair (The Opposition Army)**
- **Aisha bint Abi Bakr** – Wife of the Prophet, political leader (did not fight physically).
- **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah** – Early convert, famous companion, mortally wounded in battle.
- **Zubair ibn al-Awwam** – Cousin of the Prophet, withdrew before main battle, later killed.
- **Abdullah ibn al-Zubair** – Son of Zubair, fierce fighter protecting his mother Aisha.
- **Marwan ibn al-Hakam** – Influential Umayyad, reportedly responsible for Talha's death.
- **Hakim ibn Jabalah al-Abdi** – Tribal leader opposing Ali, killed in battle.
- **Abdullah ibn Amir** – Former governor of Basra under Uthman, funded the army.
- **Umm al-Qirfa's descendants** – Notable tribal elements from Quraysh supporting Aisha.
- **Yazid ibn Harith** – Commanded troops from Basra.
- **Al-Ahnaf ibn Qays** – Initially neutral, later leaned toward Ali's camp.
- **Abdullah ibn Zama'a** – Early Meccan Muslim, supporter of Aisha's side.
- **Amr ibn al-As** (allegedly involved in political maneuvering, though not present in battle).
---
## **Neutral or Non-Combatant Figures:**
- **Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas** – Refused to participate, maintained neutrality.
- **Abdullah ibn Umar** – Refused to fight, stayed neutral.
- **Muhammad ibn Maslamah** – Also remained neutral.
- **Abu Musa al-Ash'ari** – Advised against fighting, promoted peace.
---
### **Key Tribal Affiliations:**
- **Banu Hashim:** Largely supported Ali.
- **Banu Umayyah:** Split, with Marwan leading factions against Ali.
- **Banu Taym and Banu Asad:** Supported Aisha and Talha.
- **Ansar of Medina:** Mostly supported Ali, though divided.
- **Basran Tribes (Abd al-Qays, Banu Bakr):** Many supported Aisha, while some defected to Ali.
---
### **Casualties:**
The battle was extremely bloody, with estimates of **over 10,000 casualties** from both sides. The fighting was intense, particularly around the camel of Aisha, which became the rallying point until Ali ordered it to be brought down to end the bloodshed.
However in the 1st fitna (civil war) there was allegedly tens of thousands of companions fighting and killing each other.
Narrated by Abu Bakrah:
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
"When two Muslims fight each other with their swords, both the killer and the one who is killed will be in Hell."
The companions asked, "O Messenger of Allah, this is understandable for the killer, but why the one who is killed?"
The Prophet replied, "Because he was eager to kill his companion."
Reference:
Sahih al-Bukhari (Book 87, Hadith 29 / Hadith 31 in some editions) - Sahih Muslim (Book 1, Hadith 113) - need to verify this.
So if they believe in the above hadith this means tens of thousands of companions are going to hell.... so how can they take hadith from them? Was one side right and one side wrong? Both wrong? Does God send reliable/trustworthy Muslims to hell? I dont recall a Traditional Muslim scholar saying many companions are in hell - how do they reconcile it?
So this seems to conflict with their methods.
1st fitna e.g. battle of the camel
Ali et al V Aisha et al
From chatgpt:
The **Battle of the Camel**, fought in 656 CE near Basra, was one of the pivotal battles of the **First Fitna** (the first Islamic civil war). The battle was between forces loyal to **Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib** and those led by **Aisha bint Abi Bakr**, supported by **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah** and **Zubair ibn al-Awwam**, two prominent companions of Prophet Muhammad. Here's a list of notable figures who participated on both sides:
### **Forces of Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib:**
1. **Ali ibn Abi Talib** – Fourth Caliph and cousin/son-in-law of Prophet Muhammad (commander of the army).
2. **Hasan ibn Ali** – Son of Ali and grandson of Prophet Muhammad.
3. **Husayn ibn Ali** – Son of Ali and grandson of Prophet Muhammad.
4. **Ammar ibn Yasir** – Veteran companion of the Prophet and staunch supporter of Ali.
5. **Malik al-Ashtar** – Trusted general and close ally of Ali.
6. **Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr** – Son of Abu Bakr and loyal supporter of Ali.
7. **Qays ibn Sa'd ibn Ubadah** – Governor of Egypt under Ali and military commander.
---
### **Forces of Aisha, Talha, and Zubair:**
1. **Aisha bint Abi Bakr** – Widow of Prophet Muhammad and daughter of Abu Bakr (she played a key political role but did not fight physically).
2. **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah** – Prominent companion of the Prophet and early convert to Islam (killed in the battle).
3. **Zubair ibn al-Awwam** – Cousin of Prophet Muhammad and one of the ten promised Paradise (left the battlefield before the main clash but was later killed).
4. **Abdullah ibn al-Zubair** – Son of Zubair and grandson of Abu Bakr, fought bravely to protect Aisha.
5. **Marwan ibn al-Hakam** – Former Umayyad official, fought against Ali's forces, reportedly responsible for shooting Talha.
6. **Umm al-Qirfa's descendants** – Some tribal leaders from Quraysh and allied tribes.
---
### **Key Points to Remember:**
- **The battle was named after Aisha's camel**, which she rode during the confrontation, becoming the focal point around which the fiercest fighting took place.
- **Zubair ibn al-Awwam withdrew** from the battle after a conversation with Ali, recalling the Prophet's prophecy about Zubair fighting unjustly against Ali. However, he was later killed in an unrelated incident.
- **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah was mortally wounded**, reportedly by an arrow shot by Marwan ibn al-Hakam, despite being on the same side, due to political grudges.
The **Battle of the Camel** involved thousands of participants from various tribes and regions, but historical sources focus on key figures, particularly prominent companions of Prophet Muhammad and tribal leaders. Here's a more **exhaustive list** of notable participants, divided by their allegiances:
---
## **Forces of Caliph Ali ibn Abi Talib** (The Caliphate Army)
- **Ali ibn Abi Talib** – Commander-in-chief, fourth Caliph.
- **Hasan ibn Ali** – Son of Ali, Prophet Muhammad's grandson.
- **Husayn ibn Ali** – Son of Ali, Prophet Muhammad's grandson.
- **Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah** – Son of Ali from Khawla bint Ja'far (not Fatimah's son).
- **Ammar ibn Yasir** – Senior companion, loyal supporter of Ali.
- **Malik al-Ashtar al-Nakha'i** – Fearless military commander, close to Ali.
- **Qays ibn Sa'd ibn Ubadah** – Chief of the Ansar, governor of Egypt under Ali.
- **Adiyy ibn Hatim al-Tai** – Famous for his generosity pre-Islam, supporter of Ali.
- **Ashtar ibn Qais al-Kindi** – Commander from Yemen.
- **Sahl ibn Hunayf** – Veteran companion, played a key role in Basra.
- **Ubaydullah ibn Abbas** – Ali's cousin, fought bravely in the battle.
- **Abdullah ibn Ja'far al-Tayyar** – Nephew of Ali, son of Ja'far ibn Abi Talib.
- **Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr** – Son of Abu Bakr, staunch supporter of Ali.
- **Hujr ibn Adi al-Kindi** – Loyal follower of Ali, known for piety.
- **Sa'sa'ah ibn Suhan** – Orator and supporter from Bahrain.
- **Abdullah ibn Abbas** – Cousin of the Prophet and Ali, renowned scholar.
- **Abu Ayyub al-Ansari** – Veteran of many battles, supporter of Ali.
---
## **Forces of Aisha, Talha, and Zubair (The Opposition Army)**
- **Aisha bint Abi Bakr** – Wife of the Prophet, political leader (did not fight physically).
- **Talha ibn Ubayd Allah** – Early convert, famous companion, mortally wounded in battle.
- **Zubair ibn al-Awwam** – Cousin of the Prophet, withdrew before main battle, later killed.
- **Abdullah ibn al-Zubair** – Son of Zubair, fierce fighter protecting his mother Aisha.
- **Marwan ibn al-Hakam** – Influential Umayyad, reportedly responsible for Talha's death.
- **Hakim ibn Jabalah al-Abdi** – Tribal leader opposing Ali, killed in battle.
- **Abdullah ibn Amir** – Former governor of Basra under Uthman, funded the army.
- **Umm al-Qirfa's descendants** – Notable tribal elements from Quraysh supporting Aisha.
- **Yazid ibn Harith** – Commanded troops from Basra.
- **Al-Ahnaf ibn Qays** – Initially neutral, later leaned toward Ali's camp.
- **Abdullah ibn Zama'a** – Early Meccan Muslim, supporter of Aisha's side.
- **Amr ibn al-As** (allegedly involved in political maneuvering, though not present in battle).
---
## **Neutral or Non-Combatant Figures:**
- **Sa'd ibn Abi Waqqas** – Refused to participate, maintained neutrality.
- **Abdullah ibn Umar** – Refused to fight, stayed neutral.
- **Muhammad ibn Maslamah** – Also remained neutral.
- **Abu Musa al-Ash'ari** – Advised against fighting, promoted peace.
---
### **Key Tribal Affiliations:**
- **Banu Hashim:** Largely supported Ali.
- **Banu Umayyah:** Split, with Marwan leading factions against Ali.
- **Banu Taym and Banu Asad:** Supported Aisha and Talha.
- **Ansar of Medina:** Mostly supported Ali, though divided.
- **Basran Tribes (Abd al-Qays, Banu Bakr):** Many supported Aisha, while some defected to Ali.
---
### **Casualties:**
The battle was extremely bloody, with estimates of **over 10,000 casualties** from both sides. The fighting was intense, particularly around the camel of Aisha, which became the rallying point until Ali ordered it to be brought down to end the bloodshed.
#55
Discussions / Re: We call our Lord, The Merc...
Last post by fireheart47 - January 20, 2025, 12:12:14 PMI've been thinking about topic of animals, and diet.
As a baby I was fed a lot and was fat, and had big head. When I was a kid, I ate dairy, meat, and seafood. Then became skinnier with time as diet changed.
The diet I eat now is particular to my stage in life and the health issues I have made for myself because previous diet.
In documentary about Sahara, showed young women being fattened. Seems like another diet related change that occurs during stages of life.
Watching the documentary and seeing the diet of the nomadic desert people reminded me of the Qur'an and how it focuses on livestock (meat, dairy) as the main good thing. Yet also encourages eating dates and other fruit and vegetables to possibly encourage a balanced diet.
In the Bible, it talks about how it is our words that are more important than our food. Some stories make it look like dietary restrictions don't matter. I don't think this is what Jesus preached, because he is quoted saying that the body is the temple of God. Yet, he also is quoted questioning the purpose of tradition and wanting to establish the fundamentals, which are to treat others with empathy and to worship God. He is quoted saying to worship God secretly, hidden, with faith that God knows everything. He is quoted criticizing the people who look Godly and yet put people down, making rules and not following them themselves.
Food for thought.
As a baby I was fed a lot and was fat, and had big head. When I was a kid, I ate dairy, meat, and seafood. Then became skinnier with time as diet changed.
The diet I eat now is particular to my stage in life and the health issues I have made for myself because previous diet.
In documentary about Sahara, showed young women being fattened. Seems like another diet related change that occurs during stages of life.
Watching the documentary and seeing the diet of the nomadic desert people reminded me of the Qur'an and how it focuses on livestock (meat, dairy) as the main good thing. Yet also encourages eating dates and other fruit and vegetables to possibly encourage a balanced diet.
In the Bible, it talks about how it is our words that are more important than our food. Some stories make it look like dietary restrictions don't matter. I don't think this is what Jesus preached, because he is quoted saying that the body is the temple of God. Yet, he also is quoted questioning the purpose of tradition and wanting to establish the fundamentals, which are to treat others with empathy and to worship God. He is quoted saying to worship God secretly, hidden, with faith that God knows everything. He is quoted criticizing the people who look Godly and yet put people down, making rules and not following them themselves.
Food for thought.
#56
Islamic Duties / Re: Islamic Proportions
Last post by Sabir Mahmud - January 18, 2025, 04:38:35 PMRead the following thread regarding the mathematical issue:
https://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2969.0
https://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2969.0
#57
Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Ma...
Last post by Sabir Mahmud - January 18, 2025, 04:28:03 PMI found an interesting explanation on the topic of Gog and Magog in free-minds.org
check out:
https://www.free-minds.org/index.php/node/221
check out:
https://www.free-minds.org/index.php/node/221
#58
General Discussions / Re: 33:59 indifference to jari...
Last post by Wakas - January 18, 2025, 06:31:02 AMSince you did not comment on my reply I decline to comment on 24:33.
I want to see evidence you are sincere, thinking and have actually studied Quran.
I want to see evidence you are sincere, thinking and have actually studied Quran.
#59
General Discussions / Re: Question for Brother Josep...
Last post by Wakas - January 18, 2025, 06:29:17 AMe.g.
If a mountaineer says K2 is the most difficult mountain to climb - and another mountaineer says it is Annapurna - how do we determine the veracity of their claim?
What is the objective criteria if any? What is the subjective criteria?
What if the weather changes day to day?
#####
What if the point is there is no true objective criteria but making the attempt to climb them will demonstrate to the climber the gravity of the task, the extreme difficulty, the extreme challenge and make them think... maybe, just maybe the claim could be true.
If a mountaineer says K2 is the most difficult mountain to climb - and another mountaineer says it is Annapurna - how do we determine the veracity of their claim?
What is the objective criteria if any? What is the subjective criteria?
What if the weather changes day to day?
#####
What if the point is there is no true objective criteria but making the attempt to climb them will demonstrate to the climber the gravity of the task, the extreme difficulty, the extreme challenge and make them think... maybe, just maybe the claim could be true.
#60
General Discussions / Re: God Testing Humanity: Crys...
Last post by Wakas - January 18, 2025, 06:17:47 AM1) Where did you get your subjective criteria?
2) Name any book on earth that fulfils your criteria?
3) If you cannot provide an answer to (2) then feel free to make up such a book and describe it for us.
4) Can you tell us what Quran says about each of the criteria you have listed? This will give us an idea on how much you have studied this.
2) Name any book on earth that fulfils your criteria?
3) If you cannot provide an answer to (2) then feel free to make up such a book and describe it for us.
4) Can you tell us what Quran says about each of the criteria you have listed? This will give us an idea on how much you have studied this.