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Another person, or audience, or person trying to come up with it, would decide.

Why is it logically flawed?

There is nothing to stop anyone adopting such a modification.

However the verses seem to be suggesting a specific targeting of believing women was occurring, when believers are not in the majority in this location. The hypocrites, those with disease in their hearts, and those who spread lies were likely targeting believing women then making out they did not know they were from such a group, so these verses discuss a way to be recognised as such, thus giving an ultimatum to expose the hypocrites.

even if they came with a script to match who would decide it is better or lesser than quran? the argument is logically flawed.
33:59 O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

so it aims to protect prophet's wives, daughters and women believers (free not jariya or slaves). it openly says this is to protect them from abuse by letting the perpetrators to recognize them. The quran doesnt focus on perpetruators or the vicious crime they are doing by targeting jariyas and other women. It doesnt say protect all women against those perpetruators but instead follow a sign so your women and believer free women will not be targeted. This directive serves to protect only these women, rather than addressing the perpetrators or their acts of targeting non-believing  free women or jariyas muslim or none muslim. Why does the instruction focus on adopting a sign to prevent targeting specific groups of women, rather than safeguarding all women against such perpetrators?
General Discussions / Re: The meaning(s) of the letter waw و
« Last post by Wakas on May 02, 2024, 04:41:42 PM »
Sorry, didn't see your post. I dont have resources but whatever claims are made i.e. 21 meanings of wa, then it should be backed up by examples.

Here are two more examples of clarifying, or making specific from a general, use of wa, 33:7, 2:98
peace m114,
I only saw your questions just now. You bring up some interesting points. I will need to ponder over this and study it more to see how it comes together.
Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Divorce
« Last post by Wakas on February 18, 2024, 05:53:39 PM »
peace Hajira,

Please see:
(it discusses divorce in Quran in detail)

Can women initiate divorce according to Quran?

Quotes from my posts on free-minds:

To my knowledge, the husband is the one who initiates divorce/talaq, however the wife can release herself from the marriage but it is not called talaq explicitly in Quran. In practice the end result is the same. It could be considered nomenclature for the time.

If a woman wanted divorce she can ask her husband to divorce her, but if the husband does not divorce her, she can inform the authority herself and request a release from marriage. Whilst different words are used the procedure is actually the same for both men/women, as the husband would also have to notify the authority if he wished to divorce.
Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Divorce
« Last post by optimist on January 20, 2024, 02:41:24 AM »
The Quran has ordained equal rights and obligations for a husband and a wife. Let us look what Quran instructs. It says: (4:35) "If you fear a breach between them (the couple), the concerned authority should constitute a board of arbitration consisting of two members, one from his family and the other from hers. Thus if the husband and the wife make up their minds for reconciliation, the two arbiters should attempt to bring them close to each other. The Divine Law shall bring about reconciliation because the law is based on Allah's Knowledge, Who is acquainted with all things."

Here the term includes both man and woman, i.e, the complainant may be the man or the woman; in both cases it is the duty of society to appoint an arbitration board.

If the woman feels an excess or disinclination from her husband, even then they try to patch up their differences amongst themselves or ask for a board of arbitration to be appointed. Thus it said: (4:128) "And if a woman fears ill-usage from her husband or desertion, no blame is on them if they effect a reconciliation between them for amicable settlement is always good", (or otherwise ask for the appointment of a board of arbitration).

In Surah 'Al-Mujaadilah' (58th Chapter of the Quran) it is said: (58:1)

"Allah has indeed heard the woman who was disputing with you concerning her husband, and complaining to Allah (about the maltreatment she was receiving at the hands of her husband) and Allah was hearing the contentions of both of you. Surely Allah hears and sees (all things)."

This also makes it clear that a woman can take her case to a court of law and has full right to apply for divorce; however, the first priority of the court of arbitration shall be to bring about reconciliation between them.
General Discussions / Re: Ishmael prophet and messenger
« Last post by Wakas on December 18, 2023, 05:16:17 PM »
For these kinds of questions you may find a word search or topical index resource helpful, e.g.


You can then read every occurrence of "Ishmael" for example. In this case, quote:

Ishmael, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:86, 14:39, 21:85, 37:102-109, 38:48
and Hagar, 2:158

Note: since the references are taken from a Traditional Islam website there may be some wording issues, but the actual verse references should be accurate.
General Discussions / Re: Ishmael prophet and messenger
« Last post by Student on December 17, 2023, 01:01:08 PM »
walekum salaam,

No, not that I know from my study of the Quran.
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