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Discussions / New article: The book and the wisdom (al kitab wa al hikma) argument

« Last post by Wakas on July 11, 2024, 09:15:35 PM »

peace all,

https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/kitab-hikma.html

The book and the wisdom (al kitab wa al hikma) argument: Traditionalist/Sunni Islam Vs Quran alone

The argument goes like this: The Quran tells us prophet Muhammad was given the book (al kitab) and the wisdom (al hikma) and they say “al kitab” is The Quran and “al hikma” is separated by “wa” (and) so must be something else, which they take to mean the prophet’s sunna. Thus using this as a Quranic justification for following the prophet’s sunna, which they claim is documented in traditions (e.g. hadith), thus making those traditions a valid source of law.

There are a number of assumptions in this argument:
1) “al kitab” means the book
2) the kitab/book refers to The Quran
3) the conjunction “wa” (and) means a separate and distinct thing
4) “al hikma” refers to prophet Muhammad’s sunna
5) this sunna is preserved/documented accurately
6) this documented sunna is authoritative i.e. must be obeyed

This article will address points 1-4.

https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/kitab-hikma.html

Click on link for full article. Feedback welcome, especially corrections.

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General Discussions / sura 4:43

« Last post by Omar bin Mario on July 06, 2024, 03:15:01 PM »

Assalamu Alaykum, I've a question about the sura 4:43.

It appears to me that the sura is divided in 2 parts:

 the first part is generic and adress men and women

O you who believe! Approach not As-Salat (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, nor when you are in a state of Janaba, (i.e. in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or just passing through a mosque), till you wash your whole body

And the second part adress only men or I'm mistaken?

And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (by sexual relations) and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum). Truly, Allah is Ever Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

In the second part, it looks like if the order to perform tayammum in case of sexual relationship is directed to men only.

Could you please help me understand it?

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General Discussions / Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?

« Last post by Wakas on June 16, 2024, 08:48:55 PM »

peace Athman,

Apologies I only read your post today.
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.html

Re: 3-9
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Abraham-Sacrifice-Questions.html

Any reason you did not answer the other Qs?


Your use of "without warrant" is another way of saying "in my subjective opinion". I prefer evidenced examples from Quran to minimise subjectivity.

Your reply to Q3
You provide no Quranic example.

Re: Q4
It seems you understood perfectly. Please reconcile the submissive V coercive. Currently there is a conflict in the common view.

Re: Q5
57:27 uses the partitive, clearly implying some were true believers but most were not. In other words, my understanding would be God did not reward most because most innovated. So this does not qualify as an example.

Re: Q6
You claim in 37:103 X precedes Y but it uses conjunction "wa" / and. Could easily be argued it is simultaneous/clarifying, i.e. Quran is explaining what he did when he/they submitted. Of course this really only works for my view, not so for the common position.

Re: Q7
17:107 is taken by some(most?) as an idiom so it is not a good example. If you are claiming it is literal then do you prostrate upon the chin when you prostrate? If you say no then you will be going against your own understanding and a clear/literal example of the righteous in Quran. If you say yes you will likely contradict your understanding of 48:27. It seems you could get stuck.
Please see verbal idioms of Quran by mustansir mir, or lane's lexicon.

Re: Q8
So you take it as a "spiritual sacrifice" here, i.e. non-literal sacrifice? I assumed you only go with what dictionaries say which means this word is only used for literal physical sacrifice.
Even so it still doesn't quite fit "exchanged/ransomed him/son with a mighty spiritual sacrifice" because he wasn't really exchanged, he's still there with him/Abraham, together.

Re: Q9
You have no other Quranic example.


Apologies for the brevity of reply.

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General Discussions / Re: Question for Brother Joseph Islam (or anyone else on here) regarding Quran 10:39

« Last post by Wakas on May 16, 2024, 02:37:51 AM »

Another person, or audience, or person trying to come up with it, would decide.

Why is it logically flawed?

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General Discussions / Re: 33:59 indifference to jariya and other women's sufferings

« Last post by Wakas on May 16, 2024, 02:33:41 AM »

See:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=34

There is nothing to stop anyone adopting such a modification.

However the verses seem to be suggesting a specific targeting of believing women was occurring, when believers are not in the majority in this location. The hypocrites, those with disease in their hearts, and those who spread lies were likely targeting believing women then making out they did not know they were from such a group, so these verses discuss a way to be recognised as such, thus giving an ultimatum to expose the hypocrites.

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General Discussions / Re: Question for Brother Joseph Islam (or anyone else on here) regarding Quran 10:39

« Last post by relearning on May 13, 2024, 11:33:18 PM »

even if they came with a script to match who would decide it is better or lesser than quran? the argument is logically flawed.

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General Discussions / 33:59 indifference to jariya and other women's sufferings

« Last post by relearning on May 13, 2024, 11:15:21 PM »

33:59 O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

so it aims to protect prophet's wives, daughters and women believers (free not jariya or slaves). it openly says this is to protect them from abuse by letting the perpetrators to recognize them. The quran doesnt focus on perpetruators or the vicious crime they are doing by targeting jariyas and other women. It doesnt say protect all women against those perpetruators but instead follow a sign so your women and believer free women will not be targeted. This directive serves to protect only these women, rather than addressing the perpetrators or their acts of targeting non-believing  free women or jariyas muslim or none muslim. Why does the instruction focus on adopting a sign to prevent targeting specific groups of women, rather than safeguarding all women against such perpetrators?

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General Discussions / Re: The meaning(s) of the letter waw و

« Last post by Wakas on May 02, 2024, 04:41:42 PM »

Sorry, didn't see your post. I dont have resources but whatever claims are made i.e. 21 meanings of wa, then it should be backed up by examples.

Here are two more examples of clarifying, or making specific from a general, use of wa, 33:7, 2:98

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Islamic Duties / Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?

« Last post by Wakas on March 19, 2024, 12:35:20 AM »

peace m114,
I only saw your questions just now. You bring up some interesting points. I will need to ponder over this and study it more to see how it comes together.

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Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Divorce

« Last post by Wakas on February 18, 2024, 05:53:39 PM »

peace Hajira,

Please see:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html
(it discusses divorce in Quran in detail)

Can women initiate divorce according to Quran?

Quotes from my posts on free-minds:

To my knowledge, the husband is the one who initiates divorce/talaq, however the wife can release herself from the marriage but it is not called talaq explicitly in Quran. In practice the end result is the same. It could be considered nomenclature for the time.

If a woman wanted divorce she can ask her husband to divorce her, but if the husband does not divorce her, she can inform the authority herself and request a release from marriage. Whilst different words are used the procedure is actually the same for both men/women, as the husband would also have to notify the authority if he wished to divorce.