Discussion: The Legislative authority of the Prophet Muhammad

[Khalid Zia]

Salam,

Ref: http://quransmessage.com/articles/eating%20with%20your%20left%20hand%20FM3.htm

The question of " The Legislative authority of the Prophet Muhammad" is of fundamental difference between those who believe in "Quran only" as source of Islam law and those who include the corpus of Hadith. This is lengthy discussion, however I am answering the following [from the aforementioned article link]:

For it is the Quran, that makes it absolutely clear that it is the only source that makes matters lawful and unlawful in terms of religious decree. This is a right NOT even granted to the Prophet as can clearly be seen in the following verse:

 

    066:001

    “O Prophet! Why do you forbid that which God has made lawful to you? You seek to please your wives!. But God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

This is not so. Prophet Muhammad independent [limited] legislative authority granted by the Almighty Allah. It is to Allah Almighty that the Ultimate sovereignty belongs to, whereas the authority of the Prophet is simply manifestative.


There is no contention regarding the Ultimate Sovereignty of the Allah Almighty. So, I will only present a single verse:

إن الحكم إلا لله عليه توكلت وعليه فليتوكل المتوكلون

The decision [Hukm] is only for Allah ; upon Him I have relied, and upon Him let those who would rely [indeed] rely.

[Quran 12:68]


As to the Prophet Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him:

Joseph Islam quoted the following verse:

“O Prophet! Why do you forbid that which God has made lawful to you? You seek to please your wives!. But God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

However this only intimates that the Prophet cannot repeal what Allah made lawful and the below cannot be justified by this verse:

For it is the Quran, that makes it absolutely clear that it is the only source that makes matters lawful and unlawful in terms of religious decree. This is a right NOT even granted to the Prophet as can clearly be seen in the following verse

Further to this are the verses that actually do grant the Prophet Muhammad such authority:

قل أطيعوا الله والرسول فإن تولوا فإن الله لا يحب الكافرين
Say, "Obey Allah and the Messenger." But if they turn away - then indeed, Allah does not like the disbelievers. [3:32]

[There are several verses that command us to obey Allah and to obey the Prophet - using the source-root اطاعة]

The Almighty emphasized to Obey Allah AND His Messenger.

* * *

ألم تر إلى الذين نهوا عن النجوى ثم يعودون لما نهوا عنه ويتناجون بالإثم والعدوان ومعصيت الرسول وإذا جاءوك حيوك بما لم يحيك به الله ويقولون في أنفسهم لولا يعذبنا الله بما نقول حسبهم جهنم يصلونها فبئس المصير

Have you not considered those who were forbidden from private conversation, then they return to that which they were forbidden and converse among themselves about sin and aggression and disobedience to the Messenger? And when they come to you, they greet you with that [word] by which Allah does not greet you and say among themselves, "Why does Allah not punish us for what we say?" Sufficient for them is Hell, which they will [enter to] burn, and wretched is the destination. [58:8] Also see [58:9]

In this verse - disobedience of the Messenger is mentioned.

Another verse in the same regard is:

يومئذ يود الذين كفروا وعصوا الرسول لو تسوى بهم الأرض ولا يكتمون الله حديثا

That Day, those who disbelieved and disobeyed the Messenger will wish they could be covered by the earth. And they will not conceal from Allah a [single] statement. [4:42]

***

The following verse clearly states that the Prophet Muhammad has the authority to forbid:

قاتلوا الذين لا يؤمنون بالله ولا باليوم الآخر ولا يحرمون ما حرم الله ورسوله ولا يدينون دين الحق من الذين أوتوا الكتاب حتى يعطوا الجزية عن يد وهم صاغرون

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. [9:49]

***

الذين يتبعون الرسول النبي الأمي الذي يجدونه مكتوبا عندهم في التوراة والإنجيل يأمرهم بالمعروف وينهاهم عن المنكر ويحل لهم الطيبات ويحرم عليهم الخبائث ويضع عنهم إصرهم والأغلال التي كانت عليهم فالذين آمنوا به وعزروه ونصروه واتبعوا النور الذي أنزل معه أولئك هم المفلحون

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Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful. [7:156-157]

Here the word is not to Obey اطاعة but to Follow اتباع


In face of the above verses Joseph Islam's view that:

For it is the Quran, that makes it absolutely clear that it is the only source that makes matters lawful and unlawful in terms of religious decree. This is a right NOT even granted to the Prophet

Is not correct and is completely without merit. One has to place side-by-side those verses that elucidate the Hukm of the Almighty Allah and those that give authority to the Prophet Muhammad. And then come to a proper understanding.


This is likely to be a long discussion as it is the the base of the fundamental difference between Sunni/Shia Islam and the "Quran only". I will add more later.   

[Khalid Zia]

The question of Hadith and its legitimacy leads to the question of Sunnah. And now I will review and refute the following three articles of Joseph Islam:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/understanding%20the%20sunna%20from%20a%20quran%27s%20perspective%20FM3.htm
http://quransmessage.com/articles/understanding%20the%20sunna%20from%20a%20quran%27s%20perspective%20FM3.htm
http://quransmessage.com/articles/hikmah%20FM3.htm


1. http://quransmessage.com/articles/follow%20example%20of%20prophet%20FM3.htm

The article is regarding the following Quranic verse:

لقد كان لكم في رسول الله أسوة حسنة لمن كان يرجو الله واليوم الآخر وذكر الله كثيرا

There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.

Allah Almighty makes it clear that the Prophet Muhammad is a "good example". Now the veracity of the verse is simply pointing out that the Prophet Muhammad is a "good example" and [if one is absolutely literal] it does not extent to commanding Muslims to follow this example. However, logically a good example is there to follow.

Further:

There is another verse which employs the term "أسوة حسنة" - referring to Prophet Ibrahim:

"There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination." [60:4]

The according to the author:

We note, that the same term is indeed being used in another part of the Quran to describe Prophet Abraham (pbuh) with an elaboration of its meaning.

This is not true - the meaning of the basic term is most certainly not elaborated. The term is used exactly as it. The elaboration or explanation is not of the term but that of its usage [and context]. And these two are completely different things. 

***

The author raises the following objection:

The first significant point to note is that the term 'Us'watun Hasanatun' (good example) is NOT exclusive for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). If 'good example' entails all manner of Prophetic personal practices as part of his Sunnah, how do believers then follow the personal Sunna of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) and his followers as advised in 60:4 and 60:6? Note that in both verses, Abraham (pbuh) is mentioned along with those that followed him.

1. In the verses regarding the Prophet Muhammad - it simply mentioned that Prophet Muhammad is a good example. However, the verse regarding Prophet Ibrahim is within its own context. Therefore, the example of Prophet Ibrahim is within limited context, whereas the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad being a good example is general.

Of what Prophet Ibrahim is good example - then that is mentioned.
Of what Prophet Muhammad is good example - then that is NOT mentioned.

So one could safely conclude that Prophet Muhammad is generally a good example.

2. The verse merely points out that Prophet Muhammad is a good example - it is other verses that command us to follow the Prophet Muhammad - and this verse by itself does not intimate that one should follow this 'good example'. By this verse alone - it is only logic which points out that 'good example' is simply meant to be followed. 
 
3. There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people

Note: the "good example" of Ibrahim is particular and the verses mentions it:

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone"

except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah. Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination.

So the verse is clearly saying that in this instance the good example of Prophet Ibrahim and his people is when they dissociated from their tribe due to their Kufr.

In stark contrast the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad is not particular or limited.

"There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often"

***

The author, Joseph Islam sates:

Therefore, from the above verses we acquire the real context of the meaning of the term 'Us'watun Hasanatun' (Good example) which is clearly not a reference to the personal practices of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), but rather:

Incorrect. We acquire no such context. The example of Prophet Ibrahim is particular to this context - but there is generality in the verses regarding Prophet Muhammad. It is completely incorrect to transfer context of this one verse to another. And it is taking of context and not of meaning! As pointed above the author's understanding is mistaken.

***

If one re-reads verse 033.021 in its complete context starting from verse 9, the context of the Prophet's 'Good example' becomes clear. Similar to the context of Abraham (pbuh), Muhammad's (pbuh) 'good example' is that of one who places complete trust and belief in God and the final day.

This is also incorrect:

"There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often"

Here - it defined for WHOM is Prophet Muhammad a "good example".

***

Final thought of the author is:

Context is key to understanding the real purport of the message of a given verse.  Sadly, many verses are often taken out of context and words are interpreted in a way that do not cross reference other parts of the scripture. Rather, words are translated in a way to often support theologies which find no basis in the Quran.

I put it to the author that it is his understanding that is amiss. Previously for over a thousand years scholars of every type have gone over these verses to build a strong narrative and dismissing this as:

"Rather, words are translated in a way to often support theologies which find no basis in the Quran."

...is just brazen.


2. http://quransmessage.com/articles/understanding%20the%20sunna%20from%20a%20quran%27s%20perspective%20FM3.htm

In the following article, the author explores the usage of the word Sunnah by the Quran. He notes that Quran does not use this word to mean following the example of Prophet Muhammad.

However, it should also be appreciated that the personal likes / dislikes, attire, mannerisms, practices of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), given his particular society, cultural norms and time in history have also not been mentioned by the Quran as an instructive or prescribed ‘Sunna’ to be followed by succeeding generations.

He also says:

The Quran does not make use of, nor does it mention the term ‘Sunna’ to describe the particular practices of any Prophet including Prophet Muhammad. (pbuh) Rather, it is a term that has been specifically used by the Quran to depict the ways of ancient nations (or people) who had transgressed and on whom visited the wrath of God.

And that is all fine and correct.

***

The only thing to note is that the Quran does use the word Sunnah and the word does mean "way or example of". One further thing to note is that Tawhid توحيد is a fundamental concept yet the word is not mentioned at all by the Quran. The concept is but the word isn't!


3. http://quransmessage.com/articles/hikmah%20FM3.htm

In the following article the author asserts:

It is asserted by many Muslims that the existence of the 'sunna' of Muhammad (pbuh) which remains compulsory on Muslims to follow is attested by the following verse.

This is not quite true. We hold that this evidence towards that - among other verses.

In this article he explores the meaning and usage of the word Hikmah حكمة:

واذكرن ما يتلى في بيوتكن من آيات الله والحكمة إن الله كان لطيفا خبيرا

And remember what is recited in your houses of the verses of Allah and wisdom. Indeed, Allah is ever Subtle and Acquainted [with all things].
[33:34]

He notes:

To assert that the term 'hikmah' (wisdom) mentioned in verse 33:34 is proof and representative of the 'sunna' of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is untenable from the Quran's perspective. This is especially the case when the sunna that is often being implied refers to a body of work not fully canonised until centuries after the death of the Prophet.

And

The Quran remains the primary source for the interpretation of any term and it is clear from the few examples quoted above that 'hikmah' is the enlightenment and wisdom one receives and is extractable from a source text or revelation. All Prophets of God possessed this 'hikmah' as do those that ponder deeply about God's verses and whom God blesses.

However there is a difference when Hikmah is mentioned regarding the various Prophets:

Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from themselves who will recite to them Your verses and teach them the Book and wisdom and purify them. Indeed, You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise." [2:129]

A Prophet comes with the message and teaches this and teaches the Hikmah and purifies. As we can see the duty of Prophet is not merely to convey the message by the simple step of hading over the message.

Further:

Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know. [2:151]

Further:

And remember the favor of Allah upon you and what has been revealed to you of the Book and wisdom by which He instructs you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Knowing of all things. [2:231]

And this Wisdom is by which a Prophet instructs.

Further:

It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error - [62:2]

The Prophetic Wisdom is distinct from Wisdom given to an ordinary believer and so is its purpose.


We have already seen that:

1. Prophet Muhammad is a "good example" for Muslims.

2. The Prophets come with the message of Allah & Wisdom and they do not simply handover the message but by the wisdom teach and instruct the believers.

3. We are asked to Obey the Almighty AND the Prophet.

4. And to follow him.

5. "who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful. "

[7:156-157]
 
They case of following the Prophet strengthens. More will come. And I hope this will lead to a useful discussion.

[Joseph Islam]

Dear brother Khalid,

As-salam alaykum

With respect, there is absolutely no way that given my commitments, I will be able to respond to each and every article that you attempt to critique instantly. I also feel it important that I respond to your comments as they can simply be traced back to our fundamental difference in approach.

Thus, I think it by far the wisest approach to tackle the crux of our differences first. Your Sunni / Sufi approach will undoubtedly hold the Islamic secondary sources (Hadith, Sunnah et al) as 'authoritative' in matters of religion and my humble approach would not concur with that and will hold the Quran as the only religious 'authority' in matters of religion.

In my humble view, all our differences in thought and the basis of your contentions can be traced back to this central question of 'authority'. The drive behind your contention is to seek interpretations that are found in Islamic secondary sources and not necessarily the Quran. This is also intimated in the title you have given this thread.

Therefore, given your recent posts, I invite you to share your respected thoughts on a thread that the moderators have created for this purpose. I think this would be a far more fruitful debate and will directly tackle the stem of the contention.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0

May I once again respectfully ask that you give me time to respond as my commitments only allow me a very small slice of time to spend on this forum.

I trust that you will not disappoint.

With respect,
Joseph

[Khalid Zia]

Dear brother Khalid,

As-salam alaykum

With respect, there is absolutely no way that given my commitments, I will be able to respond to each and every article that you attempt to critique instantly. I also feel it important that I respond to your comments as they can simply be traced back to our fundamental difference in approach.

Thus, I think it by far the wisest approach to tackle the crux of our differences first. Your Sunni / Sufi approach will undoubtedly hold the Islamic secondary sources (Hadith, Sunnah et al) as 'authoritative' in matters of religion and my humble approach would not concur with that and will hold the Quran as the only religious 'authority' in matters of religion.

In my humble view, all our differences in thought and the basis of your contentions can be traced back to this central question of 'authority'. The drive behind your contention is to seek interpretations that are found in Islamic secondary sources and not necessarily the Quran. This is also intimated in the title you have given this thread.

Therefore, given your recent posts, I invite you to share your respected thoughts on a thread that the moderators have created for this purpose. I think this would be a far more fruitful debate and will directly tackle the stem of the contention.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0

May I once again respectfully ask that you give me time to respond as my commitments only allow me a very small slice of time to spend on this forum.

I trust that you will not disappoint.

With respect,
Joseph

Salam,

I have already spent several hours writing the above. If possible please move the above posts there.

Also - I do not feel there is any need to reply saying that you will reply


One thing I do wish to point out:

There is difference between having a different perspective on something and being outright incorrect. There are some matters in which the understanding of the Quran can be different and two people can have their separate perspective on the matter but follow what is satisfactory to them based on their own judgement. Then there are those matters - where someone is outright incorrect by misunderstanding something.

Usually contentious debates this understanding is not highlighted - and this leads to petty arguments. So, I would ask that we honestly indicate if if on issue someone has a different perspective or is just incorrect.

For example:

The Hanafia might disagree with Shafi'a on number of 'Fiqh - Islamic law' issues but each has mutual respect and accept that the other has the right to their position and their version can be legitimate perspective.

Then:

The matters relating to Aqeedah [Basic Tenets of Belief] tend to be far more contentious, lead to harsher arguments and generate accusations of Takfir. For example: Shia/Sunni debate. Or the difference between Sufis and Salafis. However, even on these Aqeedah matters, there is certain amount of acceptance of each others perspective.

And the difference between "Quran only" and "Quran and Hadith" is a matter of fundamental basic difference. Keeping this in mind - I hope we have lively and fruitful discussion.


Having said the above, I ask you to, please review your article on اسوة حسنة most carefully. The verse relating to Prophet Ibrahim does not give meaning to the term اسوة حسنة at all.

Thank you.

 

 

[Joseph Islam]

As-salam alaykum

With respect dear brother Khalid, we all start from a common ground, a common belief. Whether you are Sunni / Shi'a, Quran-centric, Quranist or whatever label one wants to call themselves, we all agree with the fact the Quran is the book of God and the primary source of Islam.

So any discussion should emanate from there with the Quran as the criterion. Hence my invitation to discuss the crux of our difference on the thread already shared.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0

You kindly share:

"There is difference between having a different perspective on something and being outright incorrect."

I totally agree. However, as I am sure you will appreciate, Who is correct / incorrect needs to be proved. If someone is starting from the conclusion that 'they are correct no matter what' then no fruitful discussion can ever occur as their sole intention will be to prove themselves right.

You kindly share:

"And the difference between "Quran only" and "Quran and Hadith" is a matter of fundamental basic difference. Keeping this in mind - I hope we have lively and fruitful discussion."

I hope so too dear brother and I am looking forward to it (time permitting and God willing). Hence the thread that I have shared. I have recently had a 'not so pleasant' experience with an individual from the Salafi school of thought, hence I remain very reluctant to get into any unnecessary arguments and I have asked the moderators to remain vigilant.

You share:

"Having said the above, I ask you to, please review your article on اسوة حسنة most carefully. The verse relating to Prophet Ibrahim does not give meaning to the term اسوة حسنة at all."

Of course I will. Please give me time to take a look at your contentions which in due course I will respond to Insha’Allah.

Regards,
Joseph

[Khalid Zia]

As-salam alaykum

With respect dear brother Khalid, we all start from a common ground, a common belief. Whether you are Sunni / Shi'a, Quran-centric, Quranist or whatever label one wants to call themselves, we all agree with the fact the Quran is the book of God and the primary source of Islam.

So any discussion should emanate from there with the Quran as the criterion. Hence my invitation to discuss the crux of our difference on the thread already shared.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0

You kindly share:

"There is difference between having a different perspective on something and being outright incorrect."

I totally agree. However, as I am sure you will appreciate, Who is correct / incorrect needs to be proved. If someone is starting from the conclusion that 'they are correct no matter what' then no fruitful discussion can ever occur as their sole intention will be to prove themselves right.

You kindly share:

"And the difference between "Quran only" and "Quran and Hadith" is a matter of fundamental basic difference. Keeping this in mind - I hope we have lively and fruitful discussion."

I hope so too dear brother and I am looking forward to it (time permitting and God willing). Hence the thread that I have shared. I have recently had a 'not so pleasant' experience with an individual from the Salafi school of thought, hence I remain very reluctant to get into any unnecessary arguments and I have asked the moderators to remain vigilant.

You share:

"Having said the above, I ask you to, please review your article on اسوة حسنة most carefully. The verse relating to Prophet Ibrahim does not give meaning to the term اسوة حسنة at all."

Of course I will. Please give me time to take a look at your contentions which in due course I will respond to Insha’Allah.

Regards,
Joseph

Salam,

Thank you for the kind reply.

I totally agree. However, as I am sure you will appreciate, Who is correct / incorrect needs to be proved. If someone is starting from the conclusion that 'they are correct no matter what' then no fruitful discussion can ever occur as their sole intention will be to prove themselves right.

And furthermore when discussing the language aspect of the Quran then our reliance to determine who is correct is based upon:

1. Quran.

2. Logic [Correct reasoning]

3. Linguistics - such Arabic lexicons*, syntax, semantics, etymology, pragmatics, phonetics and etc.
   
* here it is valid to use Hadith Corpus as a source of general or otherwise history - even the fabricated hadith.

***

I will take any further general discussions about Hadith and it validity to the suggested thread. However, leave this open for your article about Uswa Hasana.

I look forward to all further replies.

[Joseph Islam]

Dear brother Khalid,

As-salam alaykum

With regards 'Uswa Hasan', the Quran clearly stresses that there is already a good example in Prophet Abraham. (This was also noted in your English rendition). (60:4)

Therefore, it would be inconceivable in my humble opinion, that Prophet Muhammad would not take heed from Prophet Abraham's example first and foremost. After all he was told to follow the ways of Prophet Abraham (16:123). Recipients of the Quran's guidance including prophet Muhammad were also instructed to 'imitate' / follow / copy (iqtada) the guidance of previous prophets. (6:90).

Therefore, respectfully, I do not concur with your comment that:

"Of what Prophet Muhammad is good example - then that is NOT mentioned."

By default, if nothing else, Prophet Abraham's example would be implicit for Prophet Muhammad to follow.

Therefore, Prophet Abraham's example may have been expressed in a limited context but its application would also have been general.

Now I do not dispute that Prophet Muhammad would not have been a good example for his people. After all, he had many roles which I have discussed in reference [1] below. However, to assert (as traditionalists do) that this 'good example' is  to be found in secondary sources written by fallible men, not canonised until centuries after the prophet's death as 'authoritative', then we are back to the same basic contention of 'authority' of these sources. Hence, my original request that we deal with our fundamental difference of approach first as many contentions will stem back to the original question of 'authority' of secondary sources. I trust that you will see my point with respect.

It is also my humble position that the prophet's practices would have been tied with the specific circumstances he was presented. In different circumstances, he would have applied the Quran's guidance to different circumstance and the outcomes may have been different. I have discussed this in another article shared as reference [2] below.

I hope this helps clarify my position, God willing.

PS: I may be delayed in my responses but please accept my apologies in advance. 

With respect and regards,
Joseph


REFERENCES

[1] Was the Prophet of God Akin to a Postman Who Simply Delivers a Message?
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/247680292035772
[2] TIME-BOUND SUNNA
http://quransmessage.com/articles/timebound%20sunna%20FM3.htm

[Khalid Zia]

Salam,

With regards 'Uswa Hasan', the Quran clearly stresses that there is already a good example in Prophet Abraham.

Yes. But the verse also gives a specific example of what Prophet Ibrahim [and his companions] are a good example in. And the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad is general and not bound by any specificity. 

***

"Of what Prophet Muhammad is good example - then that is NOT mentioned."

By default, if nothing else, Prophet Abraham's example would be implicit for Prophet Muhammad to follow.

Why by default? The two verses have no correlation with each other.

Look at what the verse states:

"There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often."

This is addressed to the common Muslim and all this say and implies is that Prophet Muhammad is a good example. The verse is general and therefore it does not specify in what exactly the Prophet Muhammad is example of.

If we take that whatever Prophet Ibrahim is a good example of - and apply to this verses - and then limit this verse to that, then the generality of this verse is sacrificed. And that would be 100% incorrect. However if we apply the other verse [regarding Prophet Ibrahim] and do not limit then that is fine. The verse simply states that Prophet Muhammad is a good example.

What do you mean by default?

***

Therefore, Prophet Abraham's example may have been expressed in a limited context but its application would also have been general.

Yes. However but that limited context is not applicable to this verse at all. There is no correlation between the two.

***

Now I do not dispute that Prophet Muhammad would not have been a good example for his people. After all, he had many roles which I have discussed in reference [1] below. However, to assert (as traditionalists do) that this 'good example' is  to be found in secondary sources written by fallible men, not canonised until centuries after the prophet's death as 'authoritative', then we are back to the same basic contention of 'authority' of these sources. Hence, my original request that we deal with our fundamental difference of approach first as many contentions will stem back to the original question of 'authority' of secondary sources. I trust that you will see my point with respect.

Sadly this is off topic and does not have anything to do with the objection I have raised.

***

It is also my humble position that the prophet's practices would have been tied with the specific circumstances he was presented. In different circumstances, he would have applied the Quran's guidance to different circumstance and the outcomes may have been different. I have discussed this in another article shared as reference [2] below.

Again, this also does not answer the objection I have raised.


I will re-iterate as you have not sufficiently addressed the objections raised against your understanding - which, I think, is fundamentally flawed.

1. You are incorrect saying that "Uswa Hasana" is defined by the Prohpet Ibrahim verse. It isn't. The exact same words are used and they are not being defined.

2. In the verse regarding Prophet Ibrahim, a specific example of Uswa Hasana is given and on the other hand the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad there is no specific example given - hence the Prophet Muhammad as a "Usawa Hasan" is not limited.

3. The only objection you have raised in reply is that the specific example of Prophet Ibrahim is general of application. And that is true and was never under question. However, one cannot limit that specific example and limit the generality of this verse as that would be incorrect and illogical.

***

I implore you to give this another go.

Thank you for replying.

[Joseph Islam]

Wa alaikum assalam

Please see my responses to your comments in blue italics:

1. You are incorrect saying that "Uswa Hasana" is defined by the Prohpet Ibrahim verse. It isn't. The exact same words are used and they are not being defined.

With respect, just because you say it isn't, that doesn't make your assertion correct. I have provided you a logical progression theologically as to why Prophet Abraham's example would be exemplary foremost. You have simply dismissed this.  If the Quran is the primary source of guidance, the Quran must be used to understand best interpretation of an expression. I have done this. If you have a better elaboration / understanding of the term deriving specific guiding principles from the Quran, then please share them.

2. In the verse regarding Prophet Ibrahim, a specific example of Uswa Hasana is given and on the other hand the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad there is no specific example given - hence the Prophet Muhammad as a "Usawa Hasan" is not limited.

This is circular and tediously repetitive. I have already explained why the Quran and Prophet Abraham's example are necessary to understand terms. You say no specific example is given. I have clearly given you reasons why I disagree with your assertion with corroborating evidence. You simply refuse to accept this. With respect, repeating the question does not assist your challenge.

3 The only objection you have raised in reply is that the specific example of Prophet Ibrahim is general of application. And that is true and was never under question. However, one cannot limit that specific example and limit the generality of this verse as that would be incorrect and illogical.

Not really. The example has been explained by using a specific context.
 
060.006
"There was indeed in them a good example (Arabic: Us'watun Hasanatun) for you to follow for those whose hope is in God and in the Last Day. But if any turn away, truly God is Free of all Wants, Worthy of all Praise"

In this context, I derived three guiding beliefs from this verse:

            (i)   Belief in God alone.
            (ii)  No worship to any other than to God.
            (iii) Complete reliance in God and firm belief in the Last Day.

The application of these beliefs are general.


Regards,
Joseph

[Khalid Zia]

Salam,

With respect, just because you say it isn't, that doesn't make your assertion correct.

I have provided you a logical progression theologically as to why Prophet Abraham's example would be exemplary foremost. You have simply dismissed this.

Incorrect. I have not simply dismissed this:

"There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often."

This is addressed to the common Muslim and all this say and implies is that Prophet Muhammad is a good example. The verse is general and therefore it does not specify in what exactly the Prophet Muhammad is example of.


"If we take that whatever Prophet Ibrahim is a good example of - and apply to this verses - and then limit this verse to that, then the generality of this verse is sacrificed. And that would be 100% incorrect. However if we apply the other verse [regarding Prophet Ibrahim] and do not limit then that is fine. The verse simply states that Prophet Muhammad is a good example."

Also:

I will re-iterate as you have not sufficiently addressed the objections raised against your understanding - which, I think, is fundamentally flawed.

1. You are incorrect saying that "Uswa Hasana" is defined by the Prohpet Ibrahim verse. It isn't. The exact same words are used and they are not being defined.

2. In the verse regarding Prophet Ibrahim, a specific example of Uswa Hasana is given and on the other hand the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad there is no specific example given - hence the Prophet Muhammad as a "Usawa Hasan" is not limited.

3. The only objection you have raised in reply is that the specific example of Prophet Ibrahim is general of application. And that is true and was never under question. However, one cannot limit that specific example and limit the generality of this verse as that would be incorrect and illogical.

I have dealt with the issue as this is central and I have most certainly NOT dismissed it without reasoning as you have implied.

***

If the Quran is the primary source of guidance, the Quran must be used to understand best interpretation of an expression. I have done this. If you have a better elaboration / understanding of the term deriving specific guiding principles from the Quran, then please share them.

You have not done so. And I have already explained this, in some detail, above. You most certainly have not interpreted the expression "Uswa Hasana". The word in both cases is used exactly the same. In the verse regarding Prophet Ibrahim there is no more understanding of this term. All that particular verse does is give a specific example of situation when Prophet  Ibrahim [and those with him] were a "good example". And this does not "define" what "Uswa Hasana" is. The expression "Uswa Hasana" means "good example" - neither any more explanation is necessary nor is it given in the Quran.

All you have done is took that particular example and applied it to another verse - both have no correlation OTHER than the expression "Uswa Hasana" is used in both.

***

This is circular and tediously repetitive. I have already explained why the Quran and Prophet Abraham's example are necessary to understand terms.

I am sorry - but you have not. This is the crux of the argument. What you have mentioned previously - I have already countered that. ANd you have failed to counter my objections.

***

You say no specific example is given. I have clearly given you reasons why I disagree with your assertion with corroborating evidence.

It isn't given. Fact! It seems senseless to disagree with this! The example of Prophet Ibrahim is limited to that particular verse and it does not carry.

***

You simply refuse to accept this. With respect, repeating the question does not assist your challenge.

I do more than simply refuse. I give reasons. Please see above and please re-read what I have written.

***

Not really. The example has been explained by using a specific context.

Incorrect. One instance and one example of Prophet Ibrahim being a good example is given and that is all.

***

Not really. The example has been explained by using a specific context.
 
060.006
"There was indeed in them a good example (Arabic: Us'watun Hasanatun) for you to follow for those whose hope is in God and in the Last Day. But if any turn away, truly God is Free of all Wants, Worthy of all Praise"

In this context, I derived three guiding beliefs from this verse:

            (i)   Belief in God alone.
            (ii)  No worship to any other than to God.
            (iii) Complete reliance in God and firm belief in the Last Day.

The application of these beliefs are general.

From that verse! And from that verse alone! And those are the examples of "Uswa Hasana" AND NOT the definition of "Uswa Hasana"!

And that is one particular situation. It has not connection with the other verse - which simply states the Prophet Muhammad is good example.

He is a good example in how he organized the Suhabah, in walking, talking, laughing, in teaching, praying . . .  or are you saying that he is not a good example in these? And is just in what you limit?   

***

There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" except for the saying of Abraham to his father, "I will surely ask forgiveness for you, but I have not [power to do] for you anything against Allah . Our Lord, upon You we have relied, and to You we have returned, and to You is the destination.

Furthermore - you have limited your examples to three - yet the above verse implies more:

"Indeed, we are disassociated from you"

"and from whatever you worship other than Allah ."

" We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone"

Then you have stated the verse 60:6

There has certainly been for you in them an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day. And whoever turns away - then indeed, Allah is the Free of need, the Praiseworthy.

See! Now this verse is referring back to the verse of Prophet Ibrahim - so the "good example" of this verse is limited to that verse. But they have NOTHING to do with the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad.

And here lies the answer. 


With the utmost respect you are trying to be contrary and repeating the same thing you have mentioned in your original article. And sadly, you have not really tried to understand the objections raised. 

[Joseph Islam]

Dear brother Khalid,

As-salam alaykum

You share:

"He is a good example in how he organized the Suhabah, in walking, talking, laughing, in teaching, praying . . .  or are you saying that he is not a good example in these? And is just in what you limit?"

If I understand you to assert that this is the definition of 'Uswa Hasan', then you have not provided any evidence of this elaboration from the Quran. I also do not think you will be able to. Therefore, I know where this will lead to. I assume you will then argue that these examples are found in late Islamic sources.

Please remember, I do not dismiss that Prophet Muhammad would have provided a good example to follow, but the Quran does not elaborate what that would have been. Those that accepted his ministry were expected to follow his judgments and his decisions as part of his prophethood. This does not mean that they would have expected to sleep like him or eat like him. The prophet would have followed the Quran’s guidance and would have used it in the best manner with a view to apply it to his particular circumstances. I have discussed this throughout my articles. Please see references below.

My main argument in the article was given thus:

The first significant point to note is that the term 'Us'watun Hasanatun' (good example) is NOT exclusive for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). If 'good example' entails all manner of Prophetic personal practices as part of his Sunnah, how do believers then follow the personal Sunna of Prophet Abraham (pbuh) and his followers as advised in 60:4 and 60:6? Note that in both verses, Abraham (pbuh) is mentioned along with those that followed him.

Therefore, from the above verses we acquire the real context of the meaning of the term 'Us'watun Hasanatun' (Good example) which is clearly not a reference to the personal practices of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), but rather:
 
            (i)   Belief in God alone.
            (ii)  No worship to any other than to God.
            (iii) Complete reliance in God and firm belief in the Last Day.

I have provided an understanding of the term via the Quran using Prophet Abraham as an example. This is its primary explanation. Of course this does not mean that prophet Muhammad was not a good example in any other matter. I have never argued this.

With respect, please accept my post as the last on this matter. Readers can of course deduce their own conclusions as to how best to understand the term.

Regards,
Joseph

REFERENCES:

[1] TIME-BOUND SUNNA
http://quransmessage.com/articles/timebound%20sunna%20FM3.htm
[2] THE QURAN STANDS ALONE AS SOLE RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/quran%20sole%20guidance%20FM3.htm
[3] GOD HAS WARNED BELIEVERS TO ONLY FOLLOW THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/god%20has%20warned%20believers%20to%20only%20follow%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
[4] OBEY ALLAH (GOD) AND THE MESSENGER
http://quransmessage.com/articles/obey%20allah%20and%20the%20messenger%20FM3.htm

[optimist]

Salaam!

Firstly, thank you brother Joseph Islam for your time and comments.  Your comments were intelligible.  Thanks a lot.

Brother khalid zia, I noticed the following comment you made. 

In the verse regarding Prophet Ibrahim, a specific example of Uswa Hasana is given and on the other hand the verse regarding Prophet Muhammad there is no specific example given - hence the Prophet Muhammad as a "Usawa Hasan" is not limited.

Are you implying here that Uswa Hasana of prophet ibrahim was confined to certain specific examples?  This is a highly defamatory and derogatory remark and it seems you do not know the status of Prophet Ibrahim.    The verse in which (60:4) the Uswa Hasana mentioned about prophet Ibrahim and his companions is a highly focused verse.  What is stated in the verse is that prophet Ibrahim and his companions boldly stood up and declared that they worship Allah alone and they are disgusted with them and their deities they worship (see also 37:85-86) and that they totally reject their way of life and consider it wrong.   Therefore, the uswathun hasana mentioned here is linked to each and every moment of their life.  Surely I have turned myself, being upright, wholly to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth, and I am not of those who associate (other things with Allah) 6 :79. 

Now,  The Quran does not point us to any other books that we must seek in order to follow the best example of Prophet Ibrahim. Does this mean that today we cannot follow his best example?  Before answering we need to know what aspects of their best examples are we to follow. Are we to dress as they did? Do we mimic their eating habits?   Now Prophet Ibrahim probably wore the same clothing that was the norm in his time and probably sported a beard, as did his Kaffir father. Probably, he sat on the floor and ate with his hands, as did his Kaffir father.  Allah does not leave us guessing - He tells us the EXEMPLARY conduct of the Prophet Ibrahim in the Qu'an that we are supposed to follow.

The first act, of course is Submission to Allah alone: “Our Lord! And make us both submissive to Thee”. - (2: 128)

And He bowed his will to the Command of Allah: “When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds”. - (2: 131)

He also did not associate anyone or anything with Allah (6:76-79) 

He is also the one who is not afraid to tell the truth to his elders (6:74)

He was a good host (11:79)

His first instinct was to forgive and give people more chance to mend their ways.  Even for Lot's people he pleaded mercy.  ”Most surely Ibrahim was forbearing, tender-hearted, oft-returning (to Allah)?” (11:74-75)

This is the example we are supposed to follow.  Now, just like Prophet Ibrahim, Prophet Muhammad was also born into a culture - he wore the clothes that they wore; he had a beard as was the custom in his days. Abu Jahl also sported a beard; he ate as they did, most probably with his hands sitting on a floor. The question is: are we to follow this cultural example, or are we to follow best example outlined by Allah that we saw in the case of Prophet Ibrahim?   Allah did not leave the best example of the Prophet Muhammad that we are to follow until eternity, to outside obscure sources.  We will see that Allah has defined the best example of the Prophet Muhammad in the Quran.

(a) Absolute submission to Allah alone

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds.'" (6:162).
Prophet said to his companion "have no fear for Allah is with us": (9: 40)

Say: Allah is sufficient for me, there is no god but Him. In Him I have placed my trust for He is the Sustainer, in awesome almightiness enthroned.” - (9: 129)

(b) The Prophet was always devoted and stead fast on his duty

Say: "It is not for me to change it of my own accord. I follow nothing except what is revealed to me. I fear, were I to disobey my Lord, the punishment of a Dreadful Day." (10: 15-16)

Say: "I do not ask you for any wage for it, nor am I a man of false pretentions." (38: 86)

© The Prophet showed great patience at all times

“So be patient in the face of what they say and glorify your Lord” (50: 39)

“Be patient. But your patience is only by Allah. Do not be grieved by them and do not be constricted by the plots they hatch. Allah is with those who fulfill their duty and with those who are good-doers.” (16: 127-128)

(d) The prophet was most considerate and compassionate

Prophet always supported the community of the faithful with his strong conscience, and was a benefactor to them at all times.  Because of these traits, the Prophet is described in many verses as "your companion." (34:46: 53:2, 81:22)

“A Messenger has come to you from among yourselves. Your suffering is distressing to him; he is deeply concerned for you; he is gentle and merciful to the believers.”(9:128)

"And take the believers who follow you under your wing." (26: 215)

“It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them. Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted they would have broken away from about thee; so pass over (their faults) and ask for (Allah's) forgiveness for them…”(3:159)

(e) The Prophet was an embodiment of tolerance and justice

The Prophet never wanted to force the religion on others. The Prophet abided by the verse "There is no compulsion where the religion is concerned" (2:256)

"My Lord has commanded justice…" (7: 29)

“Stand out firmly for justice as witnesses to Allah even as against yourselves or your parents or your kin and whether it be (against) rich or poor.”(4:135)

"when ye judge between man and man that ye judge with justice (4:58)

(f) The Prophet was a bearer of glad tidings

"O Prophet! We have sent you as a witness, and a bringer of good news and a warner" (33:45),

Say: "My servants, you who have transgressed against yourselves, do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Truly
Allah forgives all wrong actions. He is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Merciful." (39: 53)

“Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil) but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere.”(2:155)

(g) The Prophet relieved Muslims of Difficulties

“Those who follow the Messenger, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Torah and the Gospel, commanding them to do right and forbidding them to do wrong, permitting them good things and prohibiting them bad things, relieving them of their heavy loads and the chains which were around them..” (7: 157)

(h) The Prophet would consult with the faithful

“It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them. Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted they would have broken away from about thee; so pass over (their faults) and ask for (Allah's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then when thou hast taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him)”(3:159).

(i) The Prophet was always kind-hearted and courteous

Some of those who surrounded the Prophet were less than well-mannered and cultured. The Prophet on the other hand, was very thoughtful, courteous, patient and civilized, and treated such people nevertheless with the greatest tolerance. Allah came to rescue the prophet in these circumstances.

“You who believe! Do not go into the Prophet's rooms except when you are invited to come and eat. Do not wait there while the food is being cooked. However, when you are called, go in, and when you have eaten, disperse, not remaining there to chat with one another. Doing that causes annoyance to the Prophet though he is too reticent to tell you so. But Allah is not reticent with the truth... (33: 53)

Conclusion:-

It is unreasonable and unthinkable that Allah would instruct us to follow the Prophet's personal mode of behaviour, because a person's mode of behaviour is determined by many different factors, such as customs and tradition, his education, personal upbringing and personal inclinations. The Prophet's mode of eating, of dress and indeed of general behaviour would not be much different from that of other Arabs, including Jews and Christians, of the time, except on matters prohibited in Islam.

So were the methods of the Prophet's wars and his administration of the Medina city-state. The weapons he used, such as swords, spears, arrows and shields were in accordance with the prevailing technology. Today, with the development of modern weapons, the Muslims obviously cannot fight with the medieval weapons used by the Prophet, although they must emulate his staunch faith in Allah and complete adherence to Allah's teachings.

Regards,
Optimist

[Joseph Islam]

Thank you brother Optimist for your post.  As-salam alaykum.

[Saba]

Salaam>> I think this is an important question for sunni sufis and not just them but Shiats and other people as well. If uswa husnaa of muhammad (saw) is not found in the qur'an and they can argue that that we must follow it, then this opens doors for hadith and sunna to define what that example to follow is. I am sure sufi brother and sisters will have much literature supporting their sufi practices from that showing that they are on the right track - muhammad (saw) proper way. Shiats will have theirs and so on. Saba

[Ismail]

Salaam.

The point is, that we must be so conversant with Al Qur'an, that we must be able to instantly judge the authenticity of a Hadis, or anything else, whatsoever, by it.

And that is the mark of the Qur'anists.

See (2:121). This Verse is a challenge for all of us.

Regards,
a. Ismail Sait.