The Meaning of Messiah

[AbbsRay]

Dear Talib,

Peace to you.

Please see EVIDENCE 9 in the article below, entitled "RE-INTERPRETATION OF VERSE 43:61 COMMONLY USED TO SUPPORT THE SECOND COMING OF PROPHET JESUS (pbuh)" where I have discussed the verse in question.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20second%20coming%20attested%20by%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.

Salam Alikum Joseph,

I am not sure if I am doing this right as of posting the question here.

I had a question about Jesus. In the english Quran translation it is written as Jesus the messiah. In Arabic it is "l-masīḥu"
 So in the Quran, discribing Jessus as the Messiah, is it the same Messiah meaning that Christians believe in? Jews consider the Messiah to be the ones was promised to them,  (they are still waiting, although Allah states it is Jesus who is the Messiah) and the Christians believe he is the Savior when you say Messiah. So what does it mean in the Arabic as the Quran put it.

Shukrun

[Joseph Islam]

Wa alaikum assalam Abbsrayray

Welcome to the forum!

As I am sure you will know, both Arabic and Hebrew share from the same Semitic stock of languages.

The Hebrew word is 'Mashiah' which means the anointed one. [1] This word is rendered in Greek as 'Christos' and Latin 'Christus' from where 'Crist' comes from in Old English and later, 'Christ' [2]

The Hebrew word carries the meaning of painting or smearing. In the Hebrew Bible it is understood as the process of anointing where one was smeared with perfumed oil etc., a process used ritually to symbolise Divine influence or a Holy emanation like the high priests of old (e.g. Exodus 29:29). It was an act of recognising someone set aside for a sacred purpose or God.

Exodus 29:29 (KJV)
“And the holy garments of Aaron shall be his sons' after him, to be anointed (mishchah [meesh-khaw]) therein, and to be consecrated in them.

The Jewish nations have always expected a 'mashiah'.

Much like the Hebrew, the Arabic 'l'masiha' also literally means the 'anointed'. It is quite interesting to note that the root 'mas'ha' also means to wipe, or pass the hand over something with a view to wipe it as in the wudu process (5:6)

وَاَيۡدِيَكُمۡ اِلَى الۡمَرَافِقِ وَامۡسَحُوۡا بِرُءُوۡسِكُمۡ

Many from the Children of Israel denied Jesus as 'al-masih' and even boasted of killing him (4:157), despite the fact he was sent to them. 

004:157
"That they said (in boast), "Indeed (Arabic: Inna), We killed Jesus Christ / Messiah (al-masiha), the son of Mary, the Messenger of God...".

However, the Quran confirms that Jesus was not a bogus messenger but rather in fact was ‘al-masih’ sent to them as they had expected.

To understand prophet Jesus as God Himself by virtue of the term 'al-masih' is unwarranted. The Jews of old  knew what the term meant (even though many denied him when he came).

In Jewish learning, this term was never a reference to God Himself in the flesh of man. Nor was the term understood in the sense of an innocent, Divine or semi-divine being who would sacrifice himself for the sins of man.  These are Christian doctrinal claims. This term predates later Christian teachings.

The Quran refers to 'al-masih' as the anointed one as the term is understood in its literal sense, much like its Hebrew original meaning. Indeed the Quran confirms that it is a reference to prophet Jesus as that appointed agent of God but without the doctrinal understanding of Christian theology.

I hope that helps, God willing.

Your brother in faith,
Joseph


REFERENCES

[1] ETYMOLOGY DICTIONARY [online], Available at http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=messiah&allowed_in_frame=0 [Accessed 17th January 2014]
[2] Ibid., Available at http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=messiah&allowed_in_frame=0 [Accessed 17th January 2014]

[Zack]

Hello Abbsrayray,

Thanks for your question. As a non-Trinitarian Christian, I would endorse what Br. Joseph wrote in response to your question. I would add that from what I understand "Mashiah" or "anointing" relates to the inaugurating of a king. This needs to be put in a historical context, of a Roman occupation of Palestine at the time of Nabi Isa. Therefore Jesus was killed (see dialogues and articles) under belief that he was establishing a kingdom as "The Mashiah".

This was taught by Jesus as not a kingdom where a physical overthrow of Rome, but where the invisible rule of God is established. This was the central message of Nabi Isa, the character of God's rule, which is what is revealed in the Injil.

A more sensitive issue for Muslims related to "The Mashiah" is that it represents an authority given by God to Jesus. This is why Christians use the word "Lord", which is misleading as these days it implies divinity, which the original language does not imply. The teaching by Isa about authority in Gods kingdom is that of a serving. In response the Bible says, after Jesus rose,  that God gave authority to him in this world (see QS 3:45). The challenge for Islam is to disentangle Jesus and his teaching from Christianity. This is because Jesus lived prior to Christianity  (Technically the term "Christian" refers to Gentile followers of Jesus who emerged 50 years later), and in reality, Jesus was very similar culturally and theologically to the Islam understood by the Prophet, with the Qur'an referring to Jesus' followers as "muslims'.

This may or may not synchronize with Br. Josephs thinking on "The Mashiah"

Wasalam
Daniel

[AbbsRay]

Sallam Alikum Joseph,

Thank You, it makes sense now. Jews and Muslims have the same understanding to the word and meaning The Messiah than what Christians belief and meaning of The Messiah.
I was wondering when my Christian friend asked me if I believed in Jesus the Messiah. After I told her of course, she than told me I than am a Christian, because I believe he was the Messiah.

I had to explain to her my beliefs about Jesus was and not the Trinity. I guess her beliefs are that is anyone who believes Jesus indeed was the Messiah that it is also a belief of the Trinity, Astaghfirullah.   
As I respect and believe people have the right to believe and follow any faith they want, my heart and mind could never believe or comprehend Allah has a son, or Jesus is Allah.

Thank You, May Allah bring us closer to him every day! 

N-

[AbbsRay]

Hello Daniel,

Thank you very much for your input as well. Knowledge is power to understanding all faiths.

Salaam 

[marealta]

Dear Daniel,

This was taught by Jesus as not a kingdom where a physical overthrow of Rome, but where the invisible rule of God is established. This was the central message of Nabi Isa, the character of God's rule, which is what is revealed in the Injil.

Could this mean, for you, that Jesus was paving the way to the coming of Quran and Divine Order? Remind me of a verse in the Gospel about how things will be given to a nation that is more fruitful than Israel.

A more sensitive issue for Muslims related to "The Mashiah" is that it represents an authority given by God to Jesus. This is why Christians use the word "Lord", which is misleading as these days it implies divinity, which the original language does not imply.

Yes, language. Even in Indonesian, the word "Tuhan" (God) is similar and does relate to the word "Tuan" (Master/Lord). And never, in the bible, as far I remember, that people call Jesus as God, they called him "Lord". I am sure my jr. high religious teacher years ago, told us about Tuhan/Tuan thing, but I didn't understand. Now I am wondering whether he is a non-Trinitarian.

The challenge for Islam is to disentangle Jesus and his teaching from Christianity. This is because Jesus lived prior to Christianity  (Technically the term "Christian" refers to Gentile followers of Jesus who emerged 50 years later), and in reality, Jesus was very similar culturally and theologically to the Islam understood by the Prophet, with the Qur'an referring to Jesus' followers as "muslims'.

I agree. And also to clarify the true teaching of Quran and Islam, that has been grossly misunderstood by both Muslims and Islamophobes.

Regards.

[Zack]

Dear Daniel,

This was taught by Jesus as not a kingdom where a physical overthrow of Rome, but where the invisible rule of God is established. This was the central message of Nabi Isa, the character of God's rule, which is what is revealed in the Injil.

Could this mean, for you, that Jesus was paving the way to the coming of Quran and Divine Order? Remind me of a verse in the Gospel about how things will be given to a nation that is more fruitful than Israel.

Regards.

No, the Kingdom that Jesus taught does not directly relate to the Qur'an, although at the same time the Qur'an does not contradict it.
In one way, the Qur'an relates more to the Torah / Moses, in the law that Moses brought was for a people that had no law, and God instructed how to live in practical ways, the Torah was revealed for the people coming out of Egypt, the Quran was revealed for the people of Arabia. This is in contrast to the Injil that Jesus brought, not one jot was added or taken from the existing law, the Torah. Jesus brought a universal law for the human heart.

In another way the Qur'an relates to the Injil, in that it is a corrective message for those who had left Gods will. For Jesus, he was confronting a Jewish way of life that had accumulated over 1000 years of oral tradition (not the Torah) that was a burden for everyone, and a corrupt temple system, where the High Priests were conspiring with the Roman occupiers. Similarly the Qur'an was a corrective to Christians, partly in Arabia, who accumulated traditions not consistent with the Injil.

The Qur'an never replaced the former Holy Books, "replacement belief" is what the Romans did (ie. West replaced East, Injil replaced Torah etc..) , and not what teh Prophet Muhammad did.

[Joseph Islam]

This may or may not synchronize with Br. Josephs thinking on "The Mashiah"

As-salam alaykum brother Daniel,

I do not see any conflict in the matter you have shared and my humble perspectives on this. Actually I feel there is general consensus between us in much of what I have read of your views hitherto. It is actually quite refreshing to read views which are commonly shared especially when they are independently verified from a strong 'argument' / academic perspective.

Kind regards,
Joseph

[Armanaziz]

Salamun Alaikum.

Dear brothers. I have gone through the articles by brother Joseph regarding Prophet Jesus and find them mostly aligned with my understanding. I would like to raise one more related point for your attention - I am not sure if this has been discussed before - from my reading I uderstand Al Qur'an 7:157 talks about Prophet Jesus and 7:158 talks about Prophet Muhammad - although traditionally it is believed both ayats talk about Prophet Muhammad. Allah SWT has not named the messenger(s) in either ayat. I believe He intends that we use our intellect over this. Appreciate your views on this.

May Allah guide us all to straight route.

Best regards,
Arman

[Zack]

Salamun Alaikum.

Dear brothers. I have gone through the articles by brother Joseph regarding Prophet Jesus and find them mostly aligned with my understanding. I would like to raise one more related point for your attention - I am not sure if this has been discussed before - from my reading I uderstand Al Qur'an 7:157 talks about Prophet Jesus and 7:158 talks about Prophet Muhammad - although traditionally it is believed both ayats talk about Prophet Muhammad. Allah SWT has not named the messenger(s) in either ayat. I believe He intends that we use our intellect over this. Appreciate your views on this.

May Allah guide us all to straight route.

Best regards,
Arman

That is a very good question, which I don't think I have a strong answer. However my thoughts are:
- In both v157 and v158 having the same key word , Ummiya, which based upon the research on this site and others, seems to have been incorrectly "unlettered", I would be quite sure that both 157 and 158 are referring to the same person.
- The reference of this Messenger being in the Torah and Injil makes it difficult for that person to be Muhammad in my opinion. In this sense Isa being this Messenger is more likely. However I am not sure of how Isa can be referred to as "Ummiya". Clearly there was astonishment among Jewish religious leaders that someone who was seen to have no religious education and from not an educated town could  expound spiritual truth in Jerusalem.
- I think generally there is a tendency in traditional interpretations to read the Prophet Muhammad into text when it is not there, coming from a Muhammad / Quran centrism. However I believe we should read the mission of the Prophet Muhammad as continually pointing to a pre-existing message , pre-existing prophets, the God of the Hebrews. This is not in any way to demean the Prophet and the Quran, however their functions were to confirm and point to what already existed. These are the Pillars of the Islamic Faith, all pre-existing beliefs.

Wasalam
Daniel

[AbbsRay]

Salaam Armanazia and Danial,

I do not have time to put everything in here about both verses are about Prophet Muhummed, and God willing it will explain it, but I am without undcertainty that both verses are about Prophet Muhummed.

After listening to verses 7:157-158, to me it is clear God is talking to/about prophet Muhammad.
 
7:157 Muhammad is prophesied in the Torah and Injil. Maybe not by name but in reference to him. (as we do not have the original scripts of those books)

How I understand it is, God is telling Prophet Muhammad to tell the people who are following the Torah and Injil who have those books that God has written in their books mentioning him (may not be by name, but about a prophet that will be coming) and in 7:158, God is saying to Muhammad, say oh mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of God.

There is a lot in the Torah and Injil, that mentions many stuff about a prophet that is not going to be speaking in their mother tongue... The Torah followers refused to accept Jesus and the Injil, and the Injil followers refused to accept Muhammad. God is saying to tell them both that He mentioned his prophecy in both books.

Salaam

[Duster]

Shalom / peace. Re: 7:157, following article might be helpful   http://quransmessage.com/articles/ahmad%20FM3.htm

[Zack]

Hello Abbsrayray,

You potentially could be right, however if 7:157-158 is referring to Muhammad, at best the required reference in the Torah and Injil concerning the Prophet Muhammad would be extremely vague, something like a character trait common to many etc. Even the sometimes used "I will raise up a prophet among you" from Exodus requires the Prophet being referred to here as a Jew, which Muhammad was not.

I would be interested how Br. Joseph interprets this?

Wasalam
Daniel

[Armanaziz]

Salamun Alaikum.

Thanks to brother Daniel, Abbsrayray and Duster for taking up my question. I feel I need to elaborate a bit on my take from Al Qur'an 7:157-158.

To analyze these two ayahs, let us first look at the context. Starting from 7:103 the discussion is on the incidents from the life of Prophet Moses. In 7:155 we see Prophet Moses praying to Allah and Allah responding to him. The response extends into 7:157 where Allah mentions about a Prophet whom "they find written with them in the Torah and the Gospel". Since Allah is saying "They find" - I believe it would be unreasonable to think that it was a part of Torah/Gospel which is since lost. I would take this as an indication that the writing should be easily found in Torah and Gospel in whatever form it has been preserved at least till the days of Qur’an revelation.

Now, the most likely portion from Torah that relates to this statement is the one below:

The LORD said to me: What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him". Deuteronomy 18.17-18

The similarity between 7:157 and Deuteronomy 18-18 is quite obvious. The reference of "Ummi" Prophet in Al Qur'an 7:157 most like correspond to the idea expressed in Deuteronomy as "I will put my words in his mouth." Both Prophets Jesus and Muhammad only spoke what Allah taught them, not from knowledge learnt in religious schools - so this narration and the adjective "Ummi" can be applied to both of them.

Now putting everything into chronological context - it seems a bit awkward to me that Allah would give Prophet Moses indication about Prophet Muhammad without hinting about Prophet Jesus who would be the Messiah for the children of Israel. Interestingly our present day Christians also strongly claim Deuteronomy 18.17-18 to be referring to Jesus the Christ - but in spite of the statement clearly mentioning a Prophet (and not a Son of God / God himself) - they continue to be confused.

Similarly, Al Qur'an 7:157 is addressed to the followers of Moses and encouraging them to follow the messenger who would free them from their burdens and chains - which more appropriately refers to Prophet Jesus – a messenger to the children of Israel (please see Al Qur’an 3:49-50). Although the Prophet is not named – a careful reader of Al Qur’an 3:49-50 would easily get the impression that the reference is indeed to Prophet Jesus.

Based on all this, to me, both Deuteronomy 18.18 and Al Qur'an 7:157 almost obviously seem to be referring to the same Prophet - Prophet Jesus.

As if to reinforce the idea, in 7:158 Allah SWT is directly addressing the messenger of Qur’an to proclaim himself as "a messenger of Allah to you altogether" – presumably meaning to all mankind – not only to children of Israel. Also please note, there is no indication in these two consequtive ayahs that they are talking about the same Prophet (other than the common adjective “Ummi”). In fact - from the point of view of Prophet Muhammad, it makes 100% sense to ask the followers of Prophet Moses to believe in Prophet Jesus first, and then to believe in him. If the Jews do not accept the Prophet within their own ancestry whom they find written in Torah and Gospel - and who already eliminated the restrictive practices their ancestors followed - would they ever believe Prophet Muhammad who was from outside their ancestral chain?

On the contrary, the argument that the “Ummi” adjective means unlettered / gentile and thus can only refer to Prophet Muhammad is a bit too restrictive for me. So, please excuse me if I am not convinced with the argument that both 7:157-158 must talk about the same “Ummi” Prophet.

One concluding remark - Allah SWT has chosen not to give the names of the Prophets in Al Qur'an 7:157-158; so even if we have difference in opinion about who they are – there should not be any reason to “fight over it” – we should be able to amicably live with our differences in opinion. The bottom line is – we need to have full faith in BOTH Prophet Jesus (as Messiah) and Prophet Muhammad (as the seal of Prophets) – peace be upon them.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Best regards,
Arman

[Zack]

Salamun Alaikum.

Thanks to brother Daniel, Abbsrayray and Duster for taking up my question. I feel I need to elaborate a bit on my take from Al Qur'an 7:157-158.

Now, the most likely portion from Torah that relates to this statement is the one below:

The LORD said to me: What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him". Deuteronomy 18.17-18

Interestingly our present day Christians also strongly claim Deuteronomy 18.17-18 to be referring to Jesus the Christ - but in spite of the statement clearly mentioning a Prophet (and not a Son of God / God himself) - they continue to be confused.

May Allah guide us all to the straight route.

Best regards,
Arman

Thanks for the response. In regards to Deut 18:17-18, I think it is not so much a claim of Christians today...... It is a central theme of the Injil that repeatedly presents Jesus as the fulfillment of of Deut 18. Acts 3:22; John 1; Acts 7...It was left in no doubt that the "Hawariyuun" viewed Jesus as the Prophet of Deut 18. In applying this to Muhammad creates a  number of problems with the previous revelation. As I said, I don't know how it is possible to interpret Muhammad as a part of the 12 tribes of Israel, when God speaking to the twelve tribes of Israel through Moses says "God will raise a Prophet among you".

As stated, I am not dogmatic as far as who 157 refers to; but one thing I am sure of is that Deut 18 does not refer to Muhammad. That would make contradictory all the Holy Books. Islam is the continuation of truth that already existed, it does not contradict itself.

Wasalam
Daniel