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Offline Deliverance

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The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« on: June 22, 2014, 11:42:41 AM »
Salam to all,

The concept of "zakat" is an important part of Islam and belongs to the "5 Pillars of Islam" but is it really meant to pay a ceartain amount of Money to the poor,because it is very often mentioned in the quran twinned with the establishmend of the salat.
My inpression is it is something we gained from the salat and we should take to the People.
"Zaka" means also to pure oneself
Is it probably meant after connected with god(salat?) and beeing enlighted with the love of god to spread this love to others?

excuse me Joseph if this post is against your concept of "zakat" i have only read your final thoughts about it.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2014, 10:04:55 PM »
Assalam By referring to Arabic Dictionaries one can not tagg different meanings & divert to different meanings. Zaqat is an Establised concept of paying a part of income for the welfare of poor. Therefore one can not explain differently. What Bro JAI has describe Zaqat is only the right explanation & not you are trying to tell us
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Deliverance

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2014, 09:30:15 AM »
I just don't believe in the strict concept of paying of a amount of Money to the poor alone.It is more than that,it is something we had to practice regularly cause it is connected with the daily prayers.

"Allah did aforetime take a Covenant from the Children of Israel, and We appointed twelve chieftains among them and Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in My Messengers honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils and admit you to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you after this resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path of rectitude." (12)"

I apreciate the concept of paying an amount to the poor but you can pay a lot of Money once a year and you can still stay a Person with enmity to other People.

Sardar do you think it is just a material concept?

I was reading one Ayat which led me to think different about "Zakat" as a material giving.
"It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God-fearing. (177)"

Here you have the mention of charity in supporting the needy with wealth and after that "Zakat" is mentioned again?

regards

Offline Saba

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2014, 10:19:10 AM »
excuse me Joseph if this post is against your concept of "zakat" i have only read your final thoughts about it.
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

Salaam deliverance, I really recommend you read the whole article. Br. Joseph doesn't say its a fixed amount, but an amount that those who are in authority determine based on the circumstances of the communities. He doesn't say it is only given to poor people either but from i get from the article a bit like the tax system which can be used for education, welfare, society purposes. Pls pls read the complete article before commenting, especially if you are going to mention it. Thanx. Saba

Offline Deliverance

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2014, 03:06:16 PM »
Salam Saba,

The first lines of my first post was against the Mainstream thought of Zakat and not against JAI article.
Quote from Joseph final thoughts:
"Zakah from the Quran seems to be a 'gain' based regular tax system, reliant on the community's gains due to investments, income etc and is to be levied by the state to which their citizens owe an obligation. This is then redistributed to the society members in need."

What i have understood from his final thought is,that it is not clear what "Zakat" really means.In my last line i sugest that "Zakat" is a spirituell practise like salat.

One ayat is showing a contradiction of "Zakat" to be a payment gesture.
"Sura 58 :13"
"Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and Allah forgives you then (at least) establish regular prayer; practice regular charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger: and Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (13) "

In arabic it is first talking about "Sadaqat" and later on if you can´t pay "Sadagat" Allah is forgiving if you establish "Salat" and "Zakat"...

If you cant pay "Sadaqat" in this special example of a gathering why should one pay "Zakat" along with practicing "Salat"?

Regards

Offline Saba

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2014, 03:35:19 PM »
I really encourage you to read the whole of br. Joseph's article. Why are you against reading his whole article and then quick to point out contradictions? Isn't that really really unfair of you?? The article addresses 'sadaqah' as a separate charity which doesn't have to be income based....this is covered by another article that you can access from the article. The two are separated if you had just read the article properly. Zakat is more like an obligation you owe to those in governance so the finance can be distributed for many different purposes like the state.

However in the verse you mentioned ....you are asked to give some sort of charity but if you can't you are still expected to uphold your tax / zakat obligations to the state.... I am sure zakat is also means tested, so if you are poor, then you may not be as zakatable as others who have more means ....It is up to the authorities in government to decide the thresholds.

If you don't want to read the article, then pls don't comment and bring it up as a contradiction to other verses. Saba

Offline Deliverance

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2014, 09:16:24 PM »
Quote
However in the verse you mentioned ....you are asked to give some sort of charity but if you can't you are still expected to uphold your tax / zakat obligations to the state....

If you cant pay sadaqa in this case you cant give zakat either.

I have a different meaning about "zakat" because of its occurance with the salat,i think it is something we have to give daily and several times of the day like the prayer.

zakat also means to spread.


Offline Saba

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2014, 09:29:05 PM »
Again, sadaqa is a choice and it means more than just giving money.... It has been encouraged and there is a whole article on this site about it. However, zakat is fard. Your 'different' meaning about zakat doesn't make any sense and also you have no proof that it has to be given several times a day.... If you had read the article which you quoted in your opening post, which you are persistantly avoiding it seems, you would have noted the meaning of zakat explored.

I think it is very rude to carry an argument referring to an article and then to not read it properly. You can make any claims you want. However, I haven't seen any evidence from you. Not to be rude once again ... but I'm through talking with you on this topic as you are not making any sense to me at least. Sorry. I can't understand why you would quote an article and then not read it. This is a real shame. Pls don't respond further to me on this topic as I really don't want to hear from you about it. Thanx Saba

Offline Deliverance

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2014, 09:29:31 AM »
Salam Saba,

I read the article meanwile and it just encourage me to look for the real meaning behind Zakat.There are questions about Zakat which arose if you learn it from Mainstream Islam.

Why there is no exact rule of paying zakat(amount and form)in the quran ?

And why women have to pay Zakat(33:33)in the quran,whereas in orthodox Islam the male is responsible for every Family member to pay zakat?

Offline Deliverance

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2014, 10:35:26 AM »
We find examples of giving zakat to the People by the prophets especialy Jesus gave Zakat his hole life.

2:129
""Our Lord! send amongst them a Messenger of their own who shall rehearse Thy Signs to them and instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom, and purify them; for Thou art the Exalted in Might the Wise." (129)"
3:164
"Allah did confer a great favour on the Believers when He sent among them an Messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error. (164)"
62:2
" It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom― although they had been, before, in manifest error― (2) As well as (to confer all these benefits upon) others of them, who"

19:19
"He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son." (19)"

19:31
""And He hath made me Blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
(31)"


The concept of zakat bound to Money alone is not found in the quran whereas we find Jesus as a beatiful example who gave Zakat by words.

Offline Wakas

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 01:45:18 PM »
peace,

The concept of zakat bound to Money alone is not found in the quran

Quote
I just don't believe in the strict concept of paying of a amount of Money to the poor alone.It is more than that,it is something we had to practice regularly...


I agree. There is no clear verse stating such a thing, nor does the word "aataw" commonly occurring before "zakah" only mean "pay".

In my view "zakah" has a wider meaning, a subset of which can include giving in charity.

See various Classical Arabic dictionaries, e.g. here:

Quote
Zay-Kaf-Waw = it increased/augmented, it throve/grew well/flourished/prospered and produced fruit, it was/became pure, purification, goodness/righteousness, lead/enjoy a plentiful/easy/soft/delicate life, put into a good/right state/condition, alms, poor-rate/due

Offline Deliverance

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2014, 03:53:26 PM »
peace,

The concept of zakat bound to Money alone is not found in the quran

Quote
I just don't believe in the strict concept of paying of a amount of Money to the poor alone.It is more than that,it is something we had to practice regularly...



I agree. There is no clear verse stating such a thing, nor does the word "aataw" commonly occurring before "zakah" only mean "pay".

In my view "zakah" has a wider meaning, a subset of which can include giving in charity.

See various Classical Arabic dictionaries, e.g. here:

Quote
Zay-Kaf-Waw = it increased/augmented, it throve/grew well/flourished/prospered and produced fruit, it was/became pure, purification, goodness/righteousness, lead/enjoy a plentiful/easy/soft/delicate life, put into a good/right state/condition, alms, poor-rate/due

Salam Wakas,

Yes i do also believe in a wider meaning,i have never heard about Jesus talking in the Gospel that it is obligatory to pay a certain amount to People as far as i remember.
Jesus was preaching "zakat"words and thus he was giving zakat and became zakat instead of those who preaches wrong and behold words to the People.
Sura 4:49
Hast thou not turned thy thought to those who claim purity for themselves? Nay,― but Allah doth sanctify whom He pleaseth But never will they fail to receive justice in the least little thing. (49)



Offline Anwar

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2014, 04:02:34 PM »
Zakaah per the pre-Islamic definition of the word in general means goodness, purity, growth and betterment. It DOES NOT means charity. The meaning of charity comes from the verse that says our saduqah purifies us. It is a theological fabricated meaning. Hence people started to defined charity as purity.

Measure one of ataa means to come as well as to do. Measure four and Measure three (those most associated with zakaat) are identical in form and conjugation, they mean (measure 2) to give, to bring, (meausre 3) to encourage, to agree with or be in alignment with, to encourage, agree with or being in alignment with in a good way (husnul-mutaawa3ah).

The only way to ascertain the meanings of the words used in the Quran is through Classical Arabic dictionaries. To say that one cannot obtain meanings from the these dictionaries for words use in the Quran defies logic.

Salam

Offline Deliverance

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2014, 06:54:29 PM »
Salam Anwar,

The translations of the word "ataa" should be "measure one" like you quoted that gives an wider understanding for the Reader.
thats a better Translation:
"....establish regular prayer and do pure activities..."
One requirement to do zakat is to believe in the one god the hereafter and his messengers.
In the sura 18:79 we read that the Boy who is an unbliever is troubling his beliving parents so he should be replaced for a believing/zakat child
(٧٩) وَأَمَّا ٱلۡغُلَـٰمُ فَكَانَ أَبَوَاهُ مُؤۡمِنَيۡنِ فَخَشِينَآ أَن يُرۡهِقَهُمَا طُغۡيَـٰنً۬ا وَڪُفۡرً۬ا (٨٠) فَأَرَدۡنَآ أَن يُبۡدِلَهُمَا رَبُّہُمَا خَيۡرً۬ا مِّنۡهُ زَكَوٰةً۬ وَأَقۡرَبَ رُحۡمً۬ا (٨١)
It is an important subject we have to ponder on how to get pure and give purity to others.

Offline Anwar

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Re: The meaning of "ZaKAt"
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2014, 09:33:44 PM »
Deliverance,

It's not about 'should' it is about 'is' or 'is not.' 99 percent of the instances that I can think of where Zakaat is used the measures of the root ataa that are associated with it are measures 3 or 4. Zaakaat is purity, goodness, betterment and growth. So the child should be replaced with one that is better than him in these qualities if the word zakaatan is used, as it is. So in general we are being told to bring what is good, better, pure and growing as well as to encourage, to agree with and be in alignment with purity, goodness, betterment and growth.

Salam