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Offline Hassan A

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Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2016, 09:18:24 AM »
Salam ZKAB90,

First off, that verse you cited says nothing about Allah revealing or granting the knowledge of the unseen or the future to whom He wills; rather it's saying that no one encompasses anything of Allah's Knowledge except [of] what (or whom) He wills.
Secondly, given that no name is given mention to in verse 2:255, then on what conceivable ground can you assert that the phrase save that which He wills [them to attain] is a reference to the prophet Muhammad?

All that said, I have cited you (many of times before) ample explicit verses which makes it abundantly and explicit clear that NO ONE EXCEPT ALLAH knows of the unseen or of the future which have seem to intentionally ignore (I presume because it defeats your whole argument) I'll cite said verses again.....perhaps you'll take understand:

"Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things)." [Al-Qur'an 31:34]

"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: 'The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.' They ask thee as if thou were eager in search thereof: say: 'The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.' " [Al-Qur'an 7:187]

Allah (continuously) says in the quran that the prophet was no more than a human being and had no such knowledge of the last hour. As demonstrated by the following ayats:

"Say, (O Muhammed) "I am no more than a human being like you...." [Quran 18:110]

"Say (O Muhammed), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound Warner." [Quran 46:9][/u

"Say (O Muhammed), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. IF I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe." [Quran 7:188 ]

"Say (O Muhammed), "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of God. Nor do I know the future..." [Quran 6:50]

So the logic from the four ayahs I quoted can be broken down as follows:
Human beings cannot predict any part of the future; prophet Muhammad was a human being; therefore he (Muhammad) could not have foretold the future.

This belief you're clinching to (regrading the prophets supposed prediction of the future/unseen) finds no support from the Quram; in fact, the Quran says the opposite (i.e. Muhammad -pbuh- had absolutely no knowledge of the unseen/future).

Offline adam

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Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2016, 05:55:49 PM »
Salam All,

Its funny how something so simple ends up being debated over and over again. just a few straight forward points in which i think will help in settling the argument.

1- Hikma does not mean hadith. Hadith means hadith. no two ways about it. no point arguing about it as Allah uses those two words distinct from each other.

2-  Who gave authority to uphold the hadiths as islamic jurisprudence? Allah? if so please show a clear verse stating so without arguing the numerous factors that could or could not be.

3- Why did Allah send down the Quran to our prophet to struggle and propagate the Qurans message for 20 odd years?. You may not understand the gravity of the situation and how huge of an event it is for us humans and non humans. But acknowledging the hadith as something to be taken as compulsory just renders all the hard work, deaths, wars and so on irrelevant when we know it is not.

4- Did the Muslims in between the time of our prophets demise and the inception of the hadith books look to hadiths as guidance? thats more or less 200 years duration.

5- The Muslims in China, we know received the message before any hadiths emerged.

6- The Quran states that nothing but the Quran is supposed to be written down by the scribes. If anything other than the Quran is written, Our prophet would of gotten it hard.

7- Is it a possibility that the only way syaitan could manipulate Islam or the Quran is by disguising falsehood within commentary books and its creators? I mean, why would syaitan mislead us by appearing as an enemy?

8- The hadith has many proven scientific errors.

9- The hadith is what causes us muslims to be divided in factions, sects and groups.

10- The Qurans states, In what other Hadith other than this Quran will you believe in? Is that not a strong statement enough to discourage you from tales from disneyland? i mean arab land?

Offline Anjum

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Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2016, 06:31:32 PM »
Salam All,

I guess...We should not waste our time explaining or debating things with people who are blinded by shaitan...he is not going to listen to our thoughts neither going to consider going through it...unless God wills i guess...:) lets just let him be...and kindly stop arguing and explaining things to really you guys have been providing clear evidence...still he has been refusing to believe why waste time...lets pray that...May God heal him and guide him to the right path..:)..Amen


Offline Mubashir

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Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2016, 10:46:05 PM »
People forget that there are two versions of Hadith - Sunni and Shia. Both sects claim to be the only true Muslims based on their Hadith books. The Shias, on YouTube quote pretty strange ahadith [including Bukhari] to embarrass the Sunnis.

As for Sunnah, each sects has it's own favorite version. Which is true? The one practiced by Sufis or Salafis? Ahdmedi or Ismailis? Ahle Fiqh or Ahle Sunnah or Ahle Hadith? Shias or Sunnis [along with their sub-sects].

We reserve the right to judge all sectarian secondary sources material collected by Persians generations after the blessed Messenger [mostly through hearsay] by Al Furqan.

Offline Wakas

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Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2016, 07:04:27 AM »
peace Hamzeh,

I was waiting for Hassan to reply before responding.

In any case, the gist of what you said is fine as long as one bears in mind the view you hold is one option, not the only option.

Offline deleted

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Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2016, 11:42:42 PM »
However, Nora, I'm not afraid.

Perhaps you should be, as the command to fear God is mentioned throughout.

from 3:102:
 اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ
(Fear the God, [as it is the] truth that he [is to be] feared)