Funeral prayer (Janaza prayer)

[Mohammed]

Dear All,
Assalaamu 'alaikum

What about the funeral prayer (Janaza prayer), which is followed by majority of the people. Is it agreeable ?

Remembering,
1. Swalah is a timed practice of worship,  And Allah has already given the times for Swalah. So no point of performing Swalah other than the mentioned times.
2. Swalah is always to remember Allah.

[ilker]

wa alaykum salam

I don't think the concept of janaza prayers conradicts the Quranic teachings.

About the hypocrites Allah(swt) says:

"And never offer prayer (wa la tusalli) for any one of them who dies and do not stand by his grave; surely they disbelieve in Allah and His Messenger and they shall die in transgression." (9:84)

Yes, "salah" has multiple meanings depending on the context of the passage the word is located in. But I think 9:84 might be a reference to this particular type of prayer performed after the deceased. Allah (swt) knows best.

I also don't think it goes against the first principle you remind us of. Janaza prayer already takes place inside one of the mentioned salah times during the day. It doesn't mean that you can't pray except for the daily mandatory prayers in those times.

I don't understand the phrase "no point of performing Swalah other than the mentioned times". Do you think Allah(swt) will ignore extra prayers that one does voluntarily besides the daily prayers ?

Salah is always to remember Allah (swt). All praise belongs to Him. Our life, our death, our salat is only for Him. Janaza prayer is just praying for the deceased brothers and sisters of the community. But you don't praise them or call for them or ask something of them during the janaza prayer. So it's ok.

[Mohammed]

Dear All,
Assalaamu 'alaikum

Brother ilker,
As an intellectual and social living being, we, the human beings have many responsibilities to the society. When one dies, it is the responsibility of the people of the society to do the necessary things for the deceased and for his/her family, especially/ basically the burial of the dead human body.
There are so many verses in the Qur'an which reminds the importance of the social responsibilities. At the same time Qur'an puts some restrictions to this responsibilities when dealing with the disbelievers/ hypocrites.

In this regard, I will interpret the verse 9:84 as it refers such kind of a restriction (If the Prophet were supporting/ helping for the burial of the debauchers/ disbelievers, it may really disturb the believers' mind), and therefor, here the term tuswalli denotes the social responsibility which one have to do for the deceased in the society.

****
# Please be aware and cautious when translating any Holy text in to another language, You may spread wrong messages unintentionally. [You can counter check your translation of 9:84 for its literal meaning (word by word)].

# You said: "But I think 9:84 might be a reference to this particular type of prayer performed after the deceased. Allah (swt) knows best."
Can you find a single verse in the Qur'an which clearly supports this 'particular type of prayer' ?

# You also said: "I also don't think it goes against the first principle you remind us of. Janaza prayer already takes place inside one of the mentioned salah times during the day."
Even if you performed Janaza prayer inside the mentioned Swalah times, the intentions are different.
Also, there are so many places where the Janaza prayer takes place in between the Fajr Prayer and the Middle(Noon) Prayer.

[ilker]

Wa alaykum salam

Brother Mohammad,

I agree with you that we can spread wrong messages unintentionally. It's true for all of us. May Allah (swt) protect us.

You can of course interpret the word "salah" in that ayah as "support" or as any other action you want. But that also would require proof from the Quran as to why it must rather be translated as "support" than any other meaning "salah" can imply. I don't know what your opinion is about the concept of "salah" in general.

But i would like to know what you think about when you say:

"So no point of performing Swalah other than the mentioned times. ."

To you, is it pointless (or maybe even wrong) to pray voluntarily to Allah(swt), for example praying two rakaats of volunteer prayer, besides the prescribed daily prayer times ? Is it forbidden or wrong to make volunteer salah between the fajr and the noon for example ?

May Allah (swt) guide us to the right way.

Take care inshaAllah

[Mohammed]

One more thing to note that 'The Swalah' described in Qur'an is with prostration (4:102), Qur'an does not teach a Swalah without prostration.

[ilker]

One more thing to note that 'The Swalah' described in Qur'an is with prostration (4:102), Qur'an does not teach a Swalah without prostration.

Salam

As a quick side note:

"If you are in danger, pray when you are out walking or riding; when you are safe again, remember God, for He has taught you what you did not know." (2:239)

(I didn't post this ayah to argue. Just a contribution for this exceptional case.)

[Mohammed]

Thank you for the reminder, Brother ilker

[Mohammed]

And I am sorry for the mistake. If anybody misinterpreted my reply, please correct it.

[Mohammed]

Dear All,
Assalaamu 'alaikum

I hope you have corrected the mistake in my reply (#4) with the verse 2:239.
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But i would like to know what you think about when you say:

"So no point of performing Swalah other than the mentioned times. ."

To you, is it pointless (or maybe even wrong) to pray voluntarily to Allah(swt), for example praying two rakaats of volunteer prayer, besides the prescribed daily prayer times ? Is it forbidden or wrong to make volunteer salah between the fajr and the noon for example ?

Dear ilker,

As I understood from the Qur'an, Swalah is a timed practice of worship. If we are performing this practice at any time as our wish, it may not coincide with the Qur'anic definition for the Swalah (4:103). This can be easily understood if we apply this thought to Hajj,

What do you think about performing Hajj at months other than the 4 sacred months ?

The purpose of any rituals/ practices of worship is to remember Allah at/by certain times in different ways. Whether it is Swalah or Fasting in Ramadan or Hajj etc., the basic concept is the same.

Qur'an says,

[4:103] "So if you accomplished the Prayer, so remember Allah standing, and sitting, and on your sides..."

[2:152] "So remember Me, I remember you, and thank/be grateful to Me and do not disbelieve."

[24:37] "Men, commercial trade and nor selling/trading does not distract/divert them from remembering Allah, and keeping up the prayers and giving/bringing the charity/purification..."

[33:41] "You, you those who believed, remember Allah much remembering."

[33:35] "...and the remembering (the men) Allah much, and the remembering (the women), Allah prepared for them a forgiveness and a great reward."

[63:9] "You, you those who believed, (let) not your properties/possessions/wealths and nor your children distract/preoccupy you from remembering Allah, and who makes/does that, so those, they are the losers."

[29:45] "...and start/keep up the Prayer, that the Prayer forbid/prevent from the enormous/atrocious deeds and the defiance of Allah and His orders/obscenity and Allah's remembrance/reminder (is) greater indeed..."

So, the first and the foremost thing we always have to bear in mind is, the remembrance of Allah, the thankfulness for the great gift He has bestowed upon us. The awareness that He is watching our each second and each of it will be questioned. And this consciousness/ reminder is an essential part of our life, it is not restricted to any practices of worship, i.e. even without any special practices of worship (like Swalah) Qur'an command us to remember Allah.
But because of the ardent human desire towards the wordly life and the evil forces present around us, human beings are not able to keep the remembrance of Allah. That may be the reason behind the grace of the institution of the mandatory/ special practices of worship at particular time intervals by Allah.

And Allah knows best.

I expect opinions/ advises from you all,

[good logic]

Peace mohammed,All.

To be honest,the debate is now shifting towards the main commands like patience,truthfulness,justice,good works and a relationship with the Lord that is strictly personal and sincere.

Things like Salat,hajj,sawm are less of a priority at the start to those who seek their Lord for a sincere relationship.
What is happening now with Qoran is people playing with multi meanings words of GOD and arriving at different confusing outcomes..
Words like Salat,Zakat,Hajj,Sawm,Sujud etc that GOD in His wisdom has put there to distinguish and bring out the true convictions of those who say they believe.
GOD has also been true to His word by sending messengers to clarify certain rights and put more fitna into the mix.
For me these type of subjects have now become irrelevant now.
The main subject of importance and priority is to acquire “taqwa” to overcome the worldly desires and to clean oneself from hate,discrimination,arrogance…LOVE GOD AND LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR!
Just my thoughts.
Oh and some verses that come to mind:
3:8
“Our Lord, let not our hearts waver, now that You have guided us. Shower us with Your mercy; You are the Grantor.
رَبَّنا لا تُزِغ قُلوبَنا بَعدَ إِذ هَدَيتَنا وَهَب لَنا مِن لَدُنكَ رَحمَةً إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الوَهّابُ

3:16
They say, “Our Lord, we have believed, so forgive us our sins, and spare us the agony of the hellfire.”
الَّذينَ يَقولونَ رَبَّنا إِنَّنا ءامَنّا فَاغفِر لَنا ذُنوبَنا وَقِنا عَذابَ النّارِ
3:17
They are steadfast, truthful, submitting, charitable, and mustaghfireen at dawn.
الصّٰبِرينَ وَالصّٰدِقينَ وَالقٰنِتينَ وَالمُنفِقينَ وَالمُستَغفِرينَ بِالأَسحارِ

Eventually,when your mind is healed/freed/at peace,you will feel completely free from hate,Jealousy,gossip,anger,tit for tat chat,revenge,false religion,…etc
Your mind will be lifted by GOD towards bliss to encounter love towards GOD Alone,then it will resonate/translate this love towards  all His creatures.
What a wonderful feeling.All around you will start to benefit from the new you,your family,friends ,enemies and yourself of course.
You will find the purpose of your life is independent of all others,only dependent on your creator.
You will start to concentrate on your thoughts and actions ,trying your best to do to others what you would like to see done to you.
Of course ,as a human,there will be moments when we step out of GOD s realm, GOD then will give you a push back as a reminder. Acknowledging ,repenting and going back to the realm will save you again and so on….
Or take no notice if you wish to remain independent of GOD,but the disease will take over again.
Muslim to GOD is a “great jihad” against oneself only,if only each one of us realises and takes up this special and private relationship with GOD Alone.
The true feeling of happiness .
GOD bless.
Peace.

[Mohammed]

Peace good logic, and thank you for the reply. At some points your expressions are wonderful!.

-One more verse to the previous post (from Surah Al Jumu'ah),
[62:10] "So if the Prayer were accomplished/ended, so spread/spread out in the Earth/land, and
ask/wish/desire from Allah's grace/favour/blessing, and remember Allah much,
maybe/perhaps you succeed/win."

[good logic]

Peace mohammed.
Thank you for your post.

In my ongoing search for GOD s message,I have yet to find a particular man s religion authored to us by our Creator.
Although GOD sends a message or clarifies His message,GOD is consistent with what is sent ,and I find that us ,humans,are always looking for some "true religion" to follow for our salvation, despite GOD telling us "you are one people and there is only one deen"
Total loyalty and submission to GOD Alone is a hard task . It may sound easy ,but devotion to GOD is the ultimate test for every generation.
[Qoran 35:32] We passed the scripture from generation to generation, and we allowed whomever we chose from among our servants to receive it. Subsequently, some of them wronged their souls, others upheld it only part of the time, while others were eager to work righteousness in accordance with God’s will; this is the greatest triumph. 

Those who are conscious of the Lord, regardless of what religion they are, will recognise the truth from their Lord wherever it is.:
[Qoran 3:133] You should eagerly race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the heavens and the earth; it awaits the righteous,
[Qoran 3:134] who give Zakat during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. God loves the charitable.
[Qoran 3:135] If they fall in sin or wrong their souls, they remember God and ask forgiveness for their sins – and who forgives the sins except God – and they do not persist in sins, knowingly.
[Qoran 3:136] Their recompense is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. What a blessed reward for the workers!
[Qoran 2:148] Each of you chooses the direction to follow; you shall race towards righteousness. Wherever you may be, God will summon you all. God is Omnipotent.
The message from GOD is consistent throughout the generations. It is about righteousness!!!! Rites and laws may differ .but the right conduct and the devotion to GOD Alone is the same.
I do not see any contradiction as regards the “righteous” in all the scriptures. Those who received the scriptures will recognise the truth of Qoran. Qoran allows them to judge by/practise what GOD has revealed to them( Not men s words) through their messengers.
A priority above all other priorities is the right conduct.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Mohammed]

Exactly!

Thank you again good logic, for the post.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu 3alykum

Dear brother Good logic

Thanks for sharing your kind comments

I don't mean to intrude on this discussion, but I thought I would bring it up incase you were not aware and to show why its important to translate the terms correctly and not use interpolations when it comes to translations.


You had translated verse 3:134 by using the word "Zakat" for the word "Yunfiqoona", which I find is a unwarranted translation.

You translation

"[Qoran 3:134] who give Zakat during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. God loves the charitable."

"zakat" is not really a voluntary task in my humble opinion rather "zakat" is duty and not voluntary and must be paid by those who make a profit.

However profits do vary in ones life but it does not matter they still need to be paid. So interpreting "Allatheena yunfiqoona fee alssarrai waalddarrai" as you did would be problematic when the Quran commands "Zakat" to be paid at all times.

It would be better translated as:

3:134 "Those who spend (of that which Allah hath given them) in ease and in adversity, those who control their wrath and are forgiving toward mankind; Allah loveth the good;"

The meaning would possibly mean those who after paying their "zakat" whether they have lots of money left over(good times in ease) or not that much money left over (adversity times) still spend from what is left.

Those are my thoughts.

Please see related article


WHAT IS THE CONCEPT OF ZAKAT FROM THE QURAN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm

[Hamzeh]

Asalamu 3alykum

Dear brother Mohammad

May I ask why you write the word "Salah" as "Swalah". Just curious as I've never heard it sound like that.

Also I have to respectively disagree with the gist of your comments regarding this post and how you used "Hajj" as an example.

I would rather say that one may go and enter "Mecca" at any time outside the 4 sacred month and would be doing a voluntary devotion to the Lord but would not be considered part of the "Hajj". Is going to "Mecca" not permitted outside the 4 sacred month?

Whether the authorities allow that or not that is a different topic and outside the discussion.

Same for prayers, there are the 5 compulsory prayers that are ordain by God in the Quran, if one chooses to voluntarily perform more they would not be considered part of the 5 compulsory prayers but extra devotion to God.

As brother Ilker had presented there is a verse 9:84 that suggest that praying for the dead who seemed righteous and not hypocrites was not condemned.

The only condemnation was to pray over those who were present in the time of the Prophets ministry who did not fight with the Prophet in a state of war and who were sitting at home and asked leave to stay, but then died. Those God had informed him that they were disbelievers.


Salam

Please see related article

THE 'LOST' MONTHS OF HAJJ
http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/Lost%20Months%20of%20Hajj.pdf