Husband can beat ( not severe ) his wife

[Beyond Tradition]

Dear Brother Joseph
As-salamualikum ,

I have read many times discussed topics that Quranic verses has been translated directly to "beat" of Arabic word . You have opposed to accept the meaning as beat against Arabic word .  But I like to know clearly that do Quran permit a man to beat his wife ( for any reason ) ?  I will be very happy if you can relieve me of this frustration .

[Wakas]

peace,

Please tell us your conclusion once you have read:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html

[Sstikstof]

Please be notified that, 'Idribo hunna' in Surah Nisa (4.34) can mean to 'shun - turn away from' (not necessarily to beat) and does not necessarily require a preposition 'an' for this meaning to be operative. For more justifications & renditions, see here, http://quransmessage.com/articles/a%20deeper%20look%20at%20the%20word%20dharaba%20FM3.htm

[Wakas]

Please be notified that if the meaning "shun / turn away from" is chosen it will result in issues. The following is a brief comparison to the "cite them" view:



"shun / turn away from"
This alleged usage in 4:34 occurs in 43:5 with the preposition "Aan", thus making Quran seems inconsistent IF it did mean that in 4:34
No identical example of this DRB usage in Quran
No explanation of how the authority are notified
Commands husband to shun / turn away from then promotes reconciliation in next verse, mixed message
It is unclear to what extent one shuns, how they can do so without being unjust etc
No supporting marital example in Quran
Impractical/illogical result when inserted into 4:128-130 and somehow requires iAAradan to be a positive thing and potentially makes Drb/3rD similar


"cite them" Quran434.com
Several identical examples of this DRB usage in Quran, including when humans are the direct object as in 4:34
Explains how the authority is notified by 4:35, and provides perfect logical/sequential coherence
No mixed message
DRB use is clear and simple to implement practically
58:1-4 provides perfect coherence in terms of marital example
When inserted into 4:128-130 provides a complementary practical and coherent solution

[Sstikstof]

Please be notified that if the meaning "shun / turn away from" is chosen it will result in issues. The following is a brief comparison to the "cite them" view:



"shun / turn away from"
This alleged usage in 4:34 occurs in 43:5 with the preposition "Aan", thus making Quran seems inconsistent IF it did mean that in 4:34
No identical example of this DRB usage in Quran
No explanation of how the authority are notified
Commands husband to shun / turn away from then promotes reconciliation in next verse, mixed message
It is unclear to what extent one shuns, how they can do so without being unjust etc
No supporting marital example in Quran
Impractical/illogical result when inserted into 4:128-130 and somehow requires iAAradan to be a positive thing and potentially makes Drb/3rD similar


"cite them" Quran434.com
Several identical examples of this DRB usage in Quran, including when humans are the direct object as in 4:34
Explains how the authority is notified by 4:35, and provides perfect logical/sequential coherence
No mixed message
DRB use is clear and simple to implement practically
58:1-4 provides perfect coherence in terms of marital example
When inserted into 4:128-130 provides a complementary practical and coherent solution

Firstly, 'Cite' as English is commonly defined as "to mention something as proof for a theory or as a reason why something has happened", which already and arguably falls under the previous injunction as '2nd person masculine plural imperative verb - faʿiẓūhunna' in verse 4:34. And also 'cite' (as you have mentioned) is appeared as unnecessary in context after the injunction "forsake the bed", as overall injunctions in 4:34 point to rapidly growing attempts.
Secondly, there is sentence "wa if you fear..." in between the verse 4:34 & 4:35, after which reconciliation matter has been dragged into consideration.
Thirdly, There are numerous verses in Quran giving proper detailed guidance on how to handle marriage bonds. Example is unnecessary in common sense. Will you demand example of making wudu (verse 5:6) from Quran?
Fourthly, A root word could have many renditions or meaning based on the context, which is primary & significant nature of any language. Why would you cut a whole tree just because of a dying leaf?

Quran 19:97,
"So We have only made it easy in your tongue that you may give good news thereby to those who guard (against evil) and warn thereby a vehemently contentious people."
So why are you making things complicated? Why can't you think or ponder with ease?

[Wakas]

Firstly, 'Cite' as English............

Before I reply, can you confirm you have understood what is meant by "cite them" as per Quran434.com?

Based on your reply I'm not sure you have understood what it meant. In case you haven't, I will quote below with a clarification:

Conclusion:

The men are supporters/maintainers of the women with what God bestowed on some of them over others and with what they spent of their money, so the righteous women are dutiful; guardians to the unseen with what God guarded. And as for those women you fear their disloyalty, then: (first) you shall advise them, and (second) abandon them in the bed, and (lastly) cite them. So if they obeyed you, then seek not against them a way; Truly, God is High, Great. [4:34]
And if you (authority) feared a rift between them two, then appoint a judge from his family and a judge from hers. If they both want to reconcile, then God will bring agreement between them. God is Knowledgeable, Expert. [4:35]


Part in bold underline refers to citing them (i.e. the spouse) to the authority for arbitration which is continued in the next verse 4:35.

[relearning]

why dont we accept quran has a historical and cultural frame? its addressee is a desert village residents whom has very low idea of women. why are you putting yourself into trouble by forcing every ayat as universal? Hence putting yourself into trouble of going great lenghts to hack the meaning of words?

[Wakas]

peace,

Hence putting yourself into trouble of going great lenghts to hack the meaning of words?

This claim is often made, but I prefer evidence-based claims.

Rather than "hacking", think of it like uncovering buried treasure.

[AQL]

Would you say this "disciplining" would also apply in the case of a trouble-making husband? If not, why not?

[Wakas]

Would you say this "disciplining" would also apply in the case of a trouble-making husband? If not, why not?

I'm not sure whom you are asking this question to but for my reply please see the link I referenced above. It specifically analyses and compares 4:34 and 4:128, and you may note something very interesting, briefly summarised below:

Quote from Quran434.com:

4:34
husband fears uprising/disloyalty from wife
---> advise ---> abandon in bed
---> (if still no resolution) idriboo/cite them
---> authority feared breach/rift (i.e. no resolution) thus appoint arbiters

4:128
if a wife feared uprising/disloyalty from husband
---> then no blame upon them that they try to reconcile between themselves
---> but if situation continues as is, i.e. no resolution, authority/arbiters can get involved (THINK: what would come before this step)

[AQL]

I'm not sure whom you are asking this question to but for my reply please see the link I referenced above. It specifically analyses and compares 4:34 and 4:128, and you may note something very interesting, briefly summarised below:

Quote from Quran434.com:

4:34
husband fears uprising/disloyalty from wife
---> advise ---> abandon in bed
---> (if still no resolution) idriboo/cite them
---> authority feared breach/rift (i.e. no resolution) thus appoint arbiters

4:128
if a wife feared uprising/disloyalty from husband
---> then no blame upon them that they try to reconcile between themselves
---> but if situation continues as is, i.e. no resolution, authority/arbiters can get involved (THINK: what would come before this step)

Thanks! Interesting in-depth analysis in that link you posted

[Duster]

Please be notified that if the meaning "shun / turn away from" is chosen it will result in issues. The following is a brief comparison to the "cite them" view:



"shun / turn away from"
This alleged usage in 4:34 occurs in 43:5 with the preposition "Aan", thus making Quran seems inconsistent IF it did mean that in 4:34
No identical example of this DRB usage in Quran
No explanation of how the authority are notified
Commands husband to shun / turn away from then promotes reconciliation in next verse, mixed message
It is unclear to what extent one shuns, how they can do so without being unjust etc
No supporting marital example in Quran
Impractical/illogical result when inserted into 4:128-130 and somehow requires iAAradan to be a positive thing and potentially makes Drb/3rD similar


"cite them" Quran434.com
Several identical examples of this DRB usage in Quran, including when humans are the direct object as in 4:34
Explains how the authority is notified by 4:35, and provides perfect logical/sequential coherence
No mixed message
DRB use is clear and simple to implement practically
58:1-4 provides perfect coherence in terms of marital example
When inserted into 4:128-130 provides a complementary practical and coherent solution

Shalom / peace Wakas ... You appear to suggest on your site that cite means 'cite the partner/situation to the authority.'......

1 - Do you have an example of any other place in the Qur'an where the verb 'idrib' means 'cite' as you have defined it? ... >>>
2 - Do you know of any lexicon in the entire Arabic language that provides the meaning of 'idrib' as you have defined it i.e. to mean 'cite'?

 

[Wakas]

peace,

Shalom / peace Wakas ... You appear to suggest on your site that cite means 'cite the partner/situation to the authority.'......

1 - Do you have an example of any other place in the Qur'an where the verb 'idrib' means 'cite' as you have defined it? ... >>>
2 - Do you know of any lexicon in the entire Arabic language that provides the meaning of 'idrib' as you have defined it i.e. to mean 'cite'?

Can you clarify if you have you read Quran434.com ? Or used http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm ?

[Duster]

Can you clarify if you have you read Quran434.com ? Or used http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm ?

Yes.....The site... as best as I could and regards the PRLonline - quite a bit for my own study.... However, I'm hoping that you will help me answer my specific questions on this site....

[Duster]

Shalom / peace Wakas ... You appear to suggest on your site that cite means 'cite the partner/situation to the authority.'......

1 - Do you have an example of any other place in the Qur'an where the verb 'idrib' means 'cite' as you have defined it? ... >>>
2 - Do you know of any lexicon in the entire Arabic language that provides the meaning of 'idrib' as you have defined it i.e. to mean 'cite'?

Any response to these 2 questions would be appreciated .... Thanks.