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Offline Shahmatt

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016, 10:19:55 AM »
Salaams Mr. Faruqui,

Thank you for clarifying. In the present case, the Quran outlines Zul Qarnayn's journey and you have provided a compelling solution for the who, what, where and how. This solution does not constitute religion, rather it is just observation. It contributes to our appreciation and understanding of the Quran. On this basis I accept your view of theological vs non-theological material.

I continue to look forward to the remaining chapters of your book.

Wassalam.

Offline Duster

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2016, 01:22:54 AM »
This solution does not constitute religion, rather it is just observation. It contributes to our appreciation and understanding of the Quran. On this basis I accept your view of theological vs non-theological material.

Shalom / peace brother Imran,

....further to what brother Shahmatt has said...can you clarify for me whether you expect the reader of your thesis to accept your findings as a religious truth or not?...

Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2016, 06:23:51 AM »
Dear brother Shahmatt,

Thank you kindly for your considered response. I am glad I was able to clarify the difference between theological extra-Qur’anic material (i.e. Hadith, Traditions, Prophet’s Biography, etc.) versus non-theological extra-Qur’anic material (i.e. observations/facts/known historical information, etc.), which, as you so aptly stated, “contributes to our appreciation and understanding of the Quran”.


Peace brother Duster,

I trust brother Shahmatt’s response satisfactorily addresses the query you previously raised in Reply #14; augmenting the already, rather clear explanation, I formerly provided in Reply #13 – i.e. the difference between Hadith (canonized religious books) and other, non-religious research materials/references that attempt to explain the known/observable world, and which, in turn, are used to clarify/explain/shed light upon the Qur’anic narrative. I am not, for example, using research materials to support Hadith literature, which is what Traditionalist do. Nor am I using Hadith to support the Qur’an or vice versa. I am using known historical and geo-political facts (usually from multiple sources to support any given fact; please also note that most Wikipedia references are “Wikipedia commons illustrations” so as to avoid copyright issues).

With regards to your question, “can you clarify for me whether you expect the reader of your thesis to accept your findings as a religious truth or not?”; my dear brother, I have no expectations of any sort whatsoever. As the astute anonymous reader in Reply #3 insightfully shared, I am simply delivering a message:

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...Imran's narrative is logical, cold without any effort to try to scare. It is as if a message is being communicated...

It is up to each individual to carefully look at the evidence and arguments I have presented, including the quality/reliability/accuracy of the reference materials, and determine, for him/herself, whether the conclusions match the Qur’anic narrative of Zul-Qurnayn’s journey. And, if so, does this mean that Gog and Magog have indeed been released and already gone to war, as I claim? And, furthermore, does this mean the world is about to come to an end, which is the logical conclusion of the fulfillment of this bedrock prophecy? That’s the central question to ponder, and its answer, for each individual to decide.

I am simply delivering a message. No more, no less.


Peace and blessings to you both.

Imran

Offline Duster

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2016, 02:51:58 PM »

I am simply delivering a message. No more, no less.


Shalom / peace.

Message from who?


Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2016, 06:19:09 AM »
Peace Duster,

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Message from who?

FROM THE CREATOR!

Offline Duster

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2016, 02:49:25 AM »
Shalom / peace,

If it is from the Creator and as you claim....you are delivering the message.....then aren't you making a 'religious' statement / theological statement !!??? Are you then saying you are a divinely inspired messenger then?

Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 07:13:04 PM »
Peace Duster


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If it is from the Creator and as you claim....you are delivering the message.....then aren't you making a 'religious' statement / theological statement !!???

Anyone can make theological statements. Here are some examples:

There is only one God.
There are multiple Gods.
We live many lives through Reincarnation.
Including the name of the Prophet in the call to prayer is idol worship.

However, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between a theological statement, and claiming one’s statement(s) form the basis of a new corpus of canonized religious books. This, rather stark difference, is one which you seem to continue to overlook, as indicated by the general theme of your ongoing comments.

To reiterate, once again, my work is simply an EXEGESIS of certain Qur’anic passages. Many individuals write exegeses of the Qur’an. It doesn’t mean their work is a new body of religious books; and neither is mine.


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Are you then saying you are a divinely inspired messenger then?

My work is a divinely inspired EXEGESIS of the Qur’an. But it is still only an exegesis. It is NOT a new divine book. The Qur’an was the last Scripture, no other Scriptures will follow. Period. However, because I am claiming my exegesis is divinely inspired, therefore, I am also claiming that it is, in fact, correct (a conclusion which each individual will have to determine for him/herself); and furthermore, that my exegesis, is a de facto CONFIRMATION of the Qur’an (see 3:81-83, below).

3:81 God took a pledge from the prophets, saying, ‘If, after I have bestowed Scripture and wisdom upon you, a messenger comes confirming what you have been given, you must believe in him and support him. Do you affirm this and accept My pledge as binding on you?’ They said, ‘We do.’ He said, ‘Then bear witness and I too will bear witness.’

3:82 Those who turn away after this are the ones who break pledges.

3:83 Do they seek anything other than submission to God? Everyone in the heavens and earth submits to Him, willingly or unwillingly; they will all be returned to Him.

And, just to be clear: yes, I am a divinely inspired Messenger, sent by God to warn the global community of the imminently approaching Final Hour…


Blessings and regards,

Imran

Offline Duster

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 11:37:46 PM »

[/i]And, just to be clear: yes, I am a divinely inspired Messenger, sent by God to warn the global community of the imminently approaching Final Hour…

Imran

Shalom / peace Imran ....

With all due respect sir ....> The Quran already expects believers to live their lives as if the final hour was imminent.....you don't add anything more to that .... I am not sure a complete thesis is required to prove what the Quran already expects believers to believe ..... We hear and We Obey Allah's words ...

Offline Duster

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 11:38:38 PM »

[/i]And, just to be clear: yes, I am a divinely inspired Messenger, sent by God to warn the global community of the imminently approaching Final Hour…

Imran

Shalom / peace Imran ....

With all due respect sir ....> The Quran already expects believers to live their lives as if the final hour was imminent.....you don't add anything more to that .... I am not sure a complete thesis is required to prove what the Quran already expects believers to believe ..... We hear and We Obey Allah's words ...


"THEY WILL ASK thee [O Prophet] about the Last Hour: "When will it come to pass?" Say: "Verily, knowledge thereof rests with my Sustainer alone. None but He will reveal it in its time. Heavily will it weigh on the heavens and the earth; [and] it will not fall upon you otherwise than of a sudden." They will ask thee - as if thou couldst gain insight into this [mystery] by dint of persistent inquiry! Say: "Knowledge thereof rests with my Sustainer alone; but [of this] most people are unaware." 7:187

However, if you are out to prove yourself a messenger ...then that's a different matter ..... >>>> I judge people's claims by the Book.

Offline Duster

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2016, 01:31:51 AM »
....It appears that some people just have this ....fascination to keep trying to bring on the end of days or prove we are in the final hours / days ...

The traditionalists do the same !!! .......

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1922.msg9478#msg9478

Why don't we just believe as the Quran wants us to believe that the final hour / end of days can come at any time ....suddenly>>>....

Offline Reader Comments

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2016, 02:48:35 AM »
From a respected brother (email shared with brother Joseph Islam)

To Brother Joseph - Shared as requested  :)

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Asalamun Alykum Br. Joseph
 
Thank you for the very interesting article you have shared. I have read it and found it to be very interesting. I can not give my views at this point. For me it was a lot of information to take at this time. As it made me think a lot and I would like to read it a couple more times Insha 'Allah and just make sure it is in tandem with all the other understandings of the Quran. I was surprised at the amount of details the author derived from the Quran about Zul Qarnayn Masha Allah. Which made me realize how deep the story is concerning Zul Qarnayn.  I found this Author to be very interesting and displays somewhat your style in writing. So i was interested if he also had other articles and was actually looking for the full version of the book so I can read the other chapters. But I could not find anything about Imran Faruqui. I couldn't even find the article you shared or the book titled Quranic Odyssey. Maybe its just not online. But thank you for sharing
 
I am also curious about what you think about the article. Especially about the difference between the Day of Judgement and the Hour or Final Hour. I always had the impression that the Day of Judgement can be at any time and that knowledge is with GOD only and no events are necessary to happen before that day comes. And that the Quran does not give us any future events except of the Day of Judgement. So therefor that day can come at us at anytime with out any warnings. But can it mean that be the Hour is warning or event to a certain nations at specific times. And does all the signs and the end of days has to happen before the Day of resurrection? But can it be that GOD is foretelling us future events? It kinda does explain how Jesus was a sign of the Hour to his people then.
 
There were two things I wanted to ask you once but I did not.
 
It was about Verses 17:4 to 17:8. Some say it is foretelling a future event. But after I read you post https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/455255027944963  I'm assuming from your post that you understand this as something that already happened and the theme of the post was a warning from God "if you return(to sin) we return(to punishment)" 17:8  and by God telling them "it may be that your Lord will have mercy on you" would not make any sense that it would be a future event. As this would seem like God is telling them don't cause mischief, but its going to happen whether you choose not to because we have decreed it.
 
The other Verses I was curious about is 30:2 to approx 30:12
Are these verses about the Romans already happened before the arrival of the Quran to the Prophet or is it foretelling a future event after the Quran was revealed?

May peace be with you Insha'Allah

Offline Imran Faruqui

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Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Magog)
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2017, 04:40:31 AM »
As tensions mount in the Korean Peninsula – with the U.S. sending a naval strike force to the region; and the North Koreans engage in their usual vitriolic pronouncements; along with an impending nuclear test (their sixth); and ongoing development/testing of intercontinental ballistic missiles eventually capable of reaching the American mainland – a highly dangerous game of “chicken” is now effectively being played. All it will take for an all-out armed conflict to break out (thus ending the armistice which has been in place since 1953), is a slight miscalculation by one side or the other. I can’t help but wonder about a ‘second surge’ of Gog and Magog, which seems to be prophesied in the Qur’an. I refer you to p.39 of my book, ‘Qur’anic Odyssey:’

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A Possible Second ‘Surge’ of Gog and Magog?

The release of Gog and Magog is mentioned twice in the Qur’an; once in verse 18:99, and the other in verse 21:96. Whether this foreshadows a second ‘surge,’ and a physical resumption of the Korean War, remains unknown. It is, however, an unnerving fact that for the past sixty years, the Korean Peninsula has experienced directly opposing, large-scale militarization on both sides of the Korean Demilitarized Zone (Figure 17) [91] – a thin strip of land approximating the 38th parallel which divides the two Koreas. [92] The Korean DMZ is the most heavily militarized border in the world, [93] with 1-1.2 million troops on the north side of it, and another 500,000-600,000 troops on the south. [94][95][96] With escalating regional tensions [97] and the DMZ literally bulging at the seams, the two halves of the Korean Peninsula appear to be awaiting God’s command to be ‘let loose’ and once again ‘surge against each other like waves.’ “

Indeed, it does appear that God’s command to be ‘let loose’ and once again ‘surge against each other like waves’ is near at hand. Everything in the Qur’an is there for a reason. Nothing is included without purpose. And hence, it is not without purpose that the war of Gog and Magog is mentioned a second time, in chapter 21, in addition to chapter 18. Is the Korean War, therefore, about to actively resume, as seemingly prophesied in the Qur’an?

We shall see…

References:

http://quransmessage.com/files/Quranic%20Odyssey%20Ch1-2%20v2.37.pdf
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/15/asia/north-korea-missiles-parade/index.html
http://www.voanews.com/a/strike-force-group-deployment-seen-united-states-signal-north-korea/3806597.html