Messages

76

General Discussions / Re: Possible Quran Contradiction?

« on: November 03, 2014, 01:53:41 PM »

Thanks brother Good logic for that.

I guess the conclusion is, creation will be created a new--but our bodies will be resurrected in their form? Meaning our forms won't literally change, we will have our same bodies but exist in a different world?

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General Discussions / Re: Possible Quran Contradiction?

« on: November 02, 2014, 04:21:06 AM »

So you don't think we will be a new creation. We will just be brought back to our forms?

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General Discussions / Possible Quran Contradiction?

« on: November 01, 2014, 06:15:37 AM »

In a place the Quran says that we will be a new creation with different forms in the aftelife. Yet the Quran seems to say that the creation isn't really different as Allah will just re-assemble our bones, we will have legs, bones, arms, faces, etc...

The Quran says:

1.) That Allah will change our forms in the afterlife (Quran 56:61) and we will be a new creation (Quran 17:89)

Yet the Quran also says:

2.) That Allah will reassemble our bones, fingertips...and our legs will wound against us...Quran 75:3, Quran 75:4, Quran 75:29 and etc..

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General Discussions / Strong evolutionary support in the Quran 32:7-9

« on: October 27, 2014, 11:52:54 AM »

(Quran 32:7) Allah is He who has made everything He created BETTER, and He began the creation of the human (being) out of clay--> He made everything he created better. Evolution seems to explain the mechanism of perfecting God's creation. (Clay is a product of wet earth-Exactly what you are made of: Water and Earth.

What's even more fascinating about this verses is that Allah say he made all of his creation better from the original and he began the creation of a human. This verse is hinting at a connection. A connection that human beings were made through a process of evolving better than the original creation.

(Quran 32: Then (thumma) He made his posterity out of the extract of a liquid disdained.

^This verse comes right after the previous one. So AFTER human beings BEGAN forming,, our posterity comes from an extract of semen. This is hinting at sexual reproduction forming.

(Quran 32:9) Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful.

^AFTER Allah made sexual reproduction, he proportioned us and given us vision/hearing/consciousness.

Allah BEGINS the process of creation, lets sexual reproduction happen, and then we get proportioned and achieve higher consciousness. Aren't these verses clear in their support of gradual creation of humans?

The preceding verse seems to be a highlight of the major evolutionary steps and it uses a sequential conjunction to illustrate its purpose. Creation began from a basic earth like substance (clay), then after the initiation of creation, sexual reproduction develops and then after that higher intelligence forms. This verse specifically says that our posterity was made from an extract of a liquid disdained, this implies that after the initiation of creation of man from the Earth, the ability to sexually reproduce formed.  After sexual reproduction formed, higher intelligence develops. Evolutionary, we can say that life formed from the Earth (or what became to be the earth). Their mode of reproduction was asexual. Then sexual reproduction occurred which allowed for more variation and more complexity in organisms. Through sexual reproduction, more variation occurred which allowed extremely complex multicellular organisms capable of thought, like humans to develop. This Quranic verse appears to highlight such a phenomenon by stating that creation started out of the Earth, then sexual reproduction developed, then humans formed.

(Quran 35:11) And Allah did create you from dust; then from a reproductive fluid; then He made you in pairs

^Here the Quran makes a very important point. This verse is stating the process of creation. We were first created from dust (a basic compound) then we were created from a reproductive fluid (This is signifying the creation of sexual reproduction), after sexual reproduction: we were created in pairs-male and female. This also shows that the first humans were created from a reproductive fluid and not instantly as creationists believe. The process of formation involved simple compounds and then sexual reproduction formed which ten allowed humans to be in pairs-male and female. This is exactly how it occurred in the evolutionary timeline. The first cell came from the Earth, then through several generations, sexual reproduction evolved which gave rise to more variation and genetic recombination which allowed for higher-level organisms like mammals to evolve.

One extremely important verse:

(Quran 82:6-9) O mankind, what has deceived you concerning your Lord, the Generous, Who created you, then proportioned you, and then balanced you; in whatever form He willed has He assembled you.

^This verse is referring to the whole of mankind. It separates creation, proportioning and balancing into 3 separate categories implying a difference of steps and time in each. Then the verse tells us that we (mankind) have been assembled through the process of creation, proportioning and balancing

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General Discussions / Re: How can one be happy in paradise?

« on: October 17, 2014, 06:09:54 AM »

lets say you committed a really evil act-murder. you seeked repentance...is it really going to make you feel happy that people will remember that

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General Discussions / How can one be happy in paradise?

« on: October 17, 2014, 04:12:41 AM »

The Quran states that people in paradise will be seated in thrones of dignity and they will be arranged in ranks.

So there is a ranking system. Someone else has more dignity than you because they better obeyed Allah and they are higher than you in paradise. In other words Allah values them more and they have more dignity because they better obeyed Allah.

But let's say that you made some serious crimes against Allah, you were punished for them and you are in a low rank in paradise. How can you be happy? You upset Allah, you didn't meet your full potential. People did better than you, they are better than you and you are inferior to them (because there are ranks and you are lower).

How can you be happy in paradise, knowing that Allah negatively judged you and that people remember you in the previous life and your mistakes and your crimes against Allah and how pathetic you were?

How can one be happy? How can there be peace if you are inferior to others and Allah knows that you made mistakes?

 

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General Discussions / Re: Anti-Islamic site testifies the truth of Quran code 19

« on: October 14, 2014, 11:56:55 AM »

Thanks for explaining brother.

I can agree with that. But it seems like Answeringislam.com is a site that is meant to mislead people into Islam--they want people to stay away from Islam.

I do think that the 19 code can be a problematic theory given that your questions are not answered.

But I think it can be resolved. Your central argument is that there is no instruction for Allah to tell us how to use the 19 code and there was no command for us to explain code 19. The problem with that is there doesn't have to be an instruction or a command for such a code to exist and for Allah to use it as the proof of the book.  But even so, there is an instruction, it is just not explicit and direct. The Quran starts with initial like A.L.M and then it goes on to say, "this is the proof of the book". This appears to be a sign that these initials mean something-and the 19 code is the best theory as to what they might mean. The fact that there is no direct instruction is not surprising given the Quran. In many verses in the Quran, information is implicit and passive. You need to carefully study the Quran to get it--you don't just read it like a regular book. You really need to get into it to understand it! Allah did this so that the Quran can guide those with an open heart and misguide those with a closed heart. This is our purpose in life. Allah never makes the signs in the Quran so strong that they definitively prove that Allah exist, if that were the case then life really wouldn't be a test and everyone would be Muslim. The verses must be sufficiently clear so that it guides those with an open heart but sufficiently vague so that it misguides those with a closed heart.

Currently, I have nothing to say about the omission of these two verses. I have not studied the manuscripts nor the 19 code, so I should just be modest with that claim. But perhaps Allah put those verses there as a test? Allah is known to test us. I am not going to make any claims about these two verses. 

To me, it just seems odd that a anti-Muslim site that is meant to make people avoid Islam would testify to the truth of this code.

It also seems that the verse describing the number 19 code, says "it is a trial for the disbelievers". Perhaps this code 19 is such a strong indicator of Quranic truth, that it is strong enough to use against a disbeliever in a trial ALONE. Moreover, that verse states that the 19 number is a fixed number and it is also meant to increase faith of those who are Muslim. Now if we were in the hereafter, do we really need an increase in faith? so it must mean that this 19 code is meant to increase faith in muslims in this life! Moreover, people were asking what does Allah mean by this 19 code. This means this code was not revealed back then and Allah did not provide an answer to that (he expects people to find out) and he will guide people about this code and misguide people as well.

All in all, I think I need to study this code and see for myself.

The thing is if the code 19 exists in the Quran, then why? You think it is just there having no purpose? 

Even Wiki-Islam testifies to the code 19 (even though they don't believe it is a miracle, they believe the code 19 exists in the Quran)

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General Discussions / Re: 6 day creation of the world?

« on: October 14, 2014, 06:58:44 AM »

Brother Joseph, this is the most perfect explanation on the scientific miracles:

"The Quran does indeed present fascinating facts and reveals a heightened understanding and appreciation of creation and its environment. However, the primary focus for the presentation of these facts was to convince the desert Arabs. No doubt as science would have advanced, further insights into the Quranic statements would have become apparent.".

Absolutely perfect. My agreement 100%. Given this, further insight like the relative age of the earth may become apparent.

I need to get more familiar with your articles, currently, I'm reading the hadith related ones and I must say that I am convinced.

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General Discussions / Re: 6 day creation of the world?

« on: October 14, 2014, 06:53:29 AM »

As-salam alaykum

I have an illustration of a similar matter that you discuss in your posts above. Please let me know if you note any material divergence of views.

Dear, Joseph Islam

As-salam alaykum,

Thanks for providing your illustration. As you know, there is a slight divergence of views and that is absolutely okay.

Quran 41:11 Then He directed Himself to the heaven (sam'aa) while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."

Quran 41:11 does not use a plural for heavens (samawat), rather it uses Sam'aa which is singular. To me, this appears to mean that a part of the heavens and the Earth came into being together rather than the entirety of the heavens and the Earth came together. Also this interpretation is scientifically supported. The earth was created through accretion (or the coming together) or space gas, dust and dubree (Quran uses the word "smoke") under the force of gravity.

This interpretation also avoids the contradiction where the Quran states that he created the heavens and the earth by spreading them rather than putting them together.

“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing?  Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)

So it appears that the universe (heavens and earth) was one joined entity, and Allah separated it (big bang) and then made a piece of the heaven and the Earth come together.

So given this I believe the best interpretation is that a piece of the heaven and the Earth came together AFTER Allah determined the length of time he decreed for the earth to form. Allah's decree was that the Earth would form after 4 days. I have broken down the verses in my second post on this thread (for reference).

Please let me know what you think. I'm definately interested in this. It appears that Quran 41:9-12 is worded in a weird way in my perception. In fact many articles (anti Islamic, of course) state that these verses mean that the universe was created in 8 days and not six--which is obviously wrong on close inspection. The parts of this verse were not mentioned in sequential order!!! It is not like Allah created the Earth in two days and THEN put mountains in 4 days and THEN created the several universes/heavens... This can be verified linguistically through the usages of 'and' (wa), 'then' (thumma), and 'fa' (so/and).

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General Discussions / Anti-Islamic site testifies the truth of Quran code 19

« on: October 11, 2014, 10:54:27 AM »

It has been stated in Answering Islam that "Although, as we shall discover later, the presence of the number 19 in the Quran as presented by Dr. Khalifa, is impressive". Obviously the Answering Islam article had objections to it, but nevertheless, they assert there is a vast presence of the number 19 in the Quran.

I have NOT studied this nor do I YET believe in a code 19 in the Quran.

I think the only solution is for me (and you) to study this and see whether such a code exists in the Quran.

It just seems rather odd that an anti-Islamic site that is meant to refute Islam testified to the truth of the Code 19 in the Quran...there must be something serious to it.

http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/number19.html

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General Discussions / Explain

« on: October 06, 2014, 10:05:06 AM »

I wanted to break down Quran 41:9-11.

(Quran 41:9) Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

This verse seems to directly state the Earth was created in two days.

(Quran 41:10) And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask.

This verse does not use the conjunction "then", it uses "and" so it is not saying that after he created the earth he put mountains on it etc.. Rather he is saying that he created the Earth in two days and he placed mountains and he blessed it and..etc. There is no "then". He is just describing his creation.

Furthermore, Allah determined the creatures sustenance in four days. This does not mean that he took 2 days to create the Earth and then another 4 in sustaining the Earth. This is because of the lack of usage of "then" or "thumma".

Rather it means that Allah determined/measured/decreed the sustenance of creatures in 4 days.

"(Quran 41:11) Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."

After Allah has measured/determined/decreed the creatures sustenance, he formed the Earth with a piece of the heaven. Notice the usage of "thumma" or then. This definitely implies a time period.

(Quran 41:12)  And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

There is a package of usage of "thumma", rather there is "fa" which does not necessarily denote time. So this verse is stating what else Allah has done. Allah has completed the several heavens within 2 days and put each heaven its command.

Here is a graphic describing what I mean:

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General Discussions / 6 day creation of the world?

« on: October 06, 2014, 09:43:34 AM »

Let me be the first to say that I am not a supporter that the Quran has "scientific miracles" in it. I do not believe that is what the Quran was meant for.

But this one thing showed up and I'm wondering if it is a coincidence.

The Quran states that the Universe (heavens AND earth) was created in 6 periods. Quran 7:54

The Quran then states that Earth was created in 2 periods. Quran 41:9.

Now both the Quran and modern physics testify that time is relative. So 6 periods could equal any amount of time.

Moving forward. By the 2 verses given above, it appears that the Quran states that earth is 2/6th (or 1/3) the age of the universe.

Now if we apply this to modern measurements of the age of the universe (which COULD change):

The universe is 13.7 billion years old. The Earth is 4.54 billion years old.

By a simply division, 4.54/13.7 you get a number that is roughly 1/3rd. That means the Earth is 1/3rd the age of the universe by modern measurements.

Is there something to this?

Now one could argue that in a few billion years that ratio would not be 1/3rd. And you would rightly argue that. It appears that the Quran further tells us that the heavens and the Earth and everything in them has been created in 6 days.

[Quran 50:38] And indeed we created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six periods

What is between the heavens and the Earth? Humans. That means the age of the universe when Allah created all the heavens and the Earth and the humans is 6 days. When the Quran says that Allah created the Universe and the Earth and Everything in between them (including humans) in six days this means that the Quran is referring to the period of existence. That means that in the distant future, the Quran would say that Allah created the universe and the earth and all that is between them (what will become between them) in 7, or 8, or 9 periods and so on. 

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General Discussions / Re: Joining family or loved one in heaven

« on: October 04, 2014, 03:25:56 PM »

However after the judgement comes to pass, I do believe that we will then recognize those people that we knew in our previous lives as is mentioned in the Quran

Right, that is exactly what I am able to conclude and that is the cause of the anxiety. You do have a point though that the new creation won't have negative emotions/rancor. But how about just judgement that isn't followed by malice? Like thinking someone made bad choices in the previous life or thinking that you may be better than an individual because [insert reason here].

How about a case in which you have made a bad decision against Allah in which Allah chose to punish you for and then takes you to paradise? Wouldn't it be feasible to have everyone forget about such crimes against Allah for the sake of your felicity?

I would say the ultimate question would be, would Allah respond favorably to asking the question to ensure that everyone forgets you completely in this life despite having no rancor in their hearts? If so, I believe this can bring more peace than the previous points, but if not, then truth is truth. The issue is that although we would be a new type of creation it appears that we would still have social desires (to be with people) and eat/drink. So if we have these 2 desires, then perhaps we have other earthly desires and contentions (except those Allah removes)?

Maybe a solution to this is that there are 2 ways in which I can be happy in paradise

• I would be careless of my previous life and not care about anyone's judgement (though the thought that they remember my misdeeds is rather painful, now)
• I ask Allah to ensure that everyone forgets my actions in the previous life 

It appears that #2 seems to bring more peace than acknowledging #1. But I guess the question is, is #2 even possible?

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General Discussions / Re: Joining family or loved one in heaven

« on: October 03, 2014, 02:34:30 PM »

I suppose that by requesting that they or others be made to forget what they were like or what they did on Earth could make them less appreciative of God's grace and favour to them.

Do you think that making everyone forget what they did on Earth would necessarily make them less appreciative of God's grace? Perhaps you can appreciate God's grace but at the same time reflect back on your choices, realize they were pathetic and not want anyone to remember them now that this life is over with? Or is that not appreciating God's grace of giving free will? And even then, can you say that your execution of free will were quite bad and that you want them forgotten? Or perhaps say to Allah that you appreciate that Allah has given you a life and guided you to pass the test of life, but you wish for Allah to make it forgotten of what you did? 

I really don't know. I found peace in knowing that I could ask God to let everyone forget about me. But, it seems your argument is quite good.

I wish that would be helpful to me.

But in spite of its helpfulness, I follow evidence where it leads. Atheism was helpful--extremely helpful. So much relief, so much carelessness of other people's judgement.  Islam hasn't been helpful to me at all in terms of my anxiety--not even in the slightest bit. It has actually led to a more severe form of it. Perhaps this is the struggle that Allah wanted for me or perhaps I am supposed to overcome this struggle by seeking refuge in Allah and finding peace in Islam...

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General Discussions / Re: Joining family or loved one in heaven

« on: October 03, 2014, 01:50:09 PM »

Salaam,

I think that those in heaven will have their wishes granted because they will only ask for good and reasonable things. This is supported by the verses  you quoted. This new species will be peaceful with no rancour in their hearts, truly appreciative of what God has given them.

Their nature will not be as it was when they were earthly beings so they would never ask for innappropriate things like having the same power as God. Innately, their nature will change and the image I am getting maybe that they will be more angelic in character.

I suppose that by requesting that they or others be made to forget what they were like or what they did on Earth could make them less appreciative of God's grace and favour to them.

I think you make a valid point that their nature is not going to be like that on Earth and we wouldn't ask any ridiculous questions.

I just wanted to state that I am the one who brother Joseph was responding to in the that Q&A. http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1402.msg6457#new

I've been struggling to find peace with myself and I pray that I do. The idea is that when I was an Atheist, my social anxiety was relieved because I believed "the universe will cease to exist and all will be forgotten". This meant that I shouldn't care about people's judgement of me because everyone will die and forget about me forever. When I became a Muslim, the social anxiety came back because everyone wasn't going to die and forget about me forever. They will be resurrected and remember me and my life again.

Brother Joseph has said that a disconnect will happen and everyone will forget about me in this life just like on Atheism. Do you agree? I really do hope what he has stated is correct, but unfortunately, I tend to question everything.

It seems like I cannot request that God makes everyone forget about my life on Earth..so that doesn't help me at all--although it may be true.