Messages

61

General Discussions / Re: What does the word Islam means

« on: November 30, 2019, 06:40:42 AM »

The word "islam" has nothing to do with a religion nor is it inherently linked to God.

The theoretical meaning of the Arabic word form can be either submission or peacemaking. They are linked meanings when you think about it.

62

Prophets and Messengers / Re: Has anybody watched the following video by Jay Smith?

« on: November 30, 2019, 06:37:44 AM »

Can you provide us with perhaps 3 of his most solid points, save us watching it.

Reference:
http://www.islam-and-muslims.com/External-References-Islam-Hoyland.pdf

63

General Discussions / Re: Question about finding contradictions and proof?

« on: November 08, 2019, 06:11:09 AM »

Al Quran can be tested/verified in many ways. Here are a few things to ponder:

When you buy a self-assembly piece of furniture (e.g. from Ikea) and it comes with instructions, how can you verify the accuracy/truthfulness of those instructions?

Bring a chapter like it? e.g. 10:37-38

Some more [ur=http://www.quran434.com/study-method.htmll]examples[/url]:
21:10, 30:30, 41:53, 51:20-21  - its information and teachings should map to our reality (within our psyche, experience and to the furthest horizons). All signs, internal and external can point to the truth of it and act as a verification mechanism.
29:20, 3:137, 3:190-191, 45:3-4 - knowledge of archaeology/biology/physics/history/sciences/philosophy etc will all help to better understand it.

Blind faith? I don't think so:
6:75-79, 21:57-67, 36:78-79, 21:22, 23:91, 2:258, 12:26-27, 22:5-6, 2:260 - promotes logical thinking.
2:269, 8:22 - strong affinity towards use of wisdom and reason.
49:6, 45:24, 6:116, 53:28, 2:111, 21:24 - disapproves of conjecture/guesswork and promotes examination of evidence.

64

General Discussions / Re: How To Refute This Article on Hadith?

« on: November 02, 2019, 11:45:51 PM »

Hate to put you out, but can you refute every point in the article?

I only refuted the conclusion you seemingly drew from it.
.

65

General Discussions / Re: How To Refute This Article on Hadith?

« on: October 31, 2019, 03:56:11 PM »

Is Zihar mentioned in classical arabic dictionaries/works that did not take it from hadith?

I don't know as I've never looked into that.

It seems the article is claiming that it was only in the hadith...

They say "hadith literature defines zihar as". They never explicitly say it's only mentioned in hadith and not classical arabic dictionaries/works (i.e. non-hadith).

"..and they specify a dictionary which has taken it from the hadith.

Can you provide a quote from the article?

66

General Discussions / Re: How To Refute This Article on Hadith?

« on: October 31, 2019, 05:56:13 AM »

If you read the article they mention examples.

They mentioned one example (zihar) and never said it wasn't discussed in Classical Arabic dictionaries/works (i.e. non-Hadith source).

Fail.

67

General Discussions / Re: How To Refute This Article on Hadith?

« on: October 30, 2019, 04:22:19 AM »

If I understand correctly the article is claiming that hadith defines words in the QUran that do not have a definition anywhere else.

Do they give some specific examples?

And do they clearly say these words are not mentioned in classical arabic dictionaries/works?

68

Women / Re: Surah Al-Nur 31.Verse

« on: October 26, 2019, 11:27:40 PM »

We can also use indirect evidence from the verse itself, see here.

From the above verse it can be deduced that for the purposes of women's dress code two types of beauty are described:

1) What is apparent (this can be revealed in public)
2) What is hidden (this type must be covered in public, but could be revealed by a striking of feet or walk/stride which is revealing)

Such a striking of feet or walk could only reveal a limited number of parts of the body, e.g. the private parts, buttocks, thighs, breasts, hips, thus any part not revealed by such an action should not be considered part of hidden beauty and therefore part of apparent beauty. Of course, this means such things as face, hair, hands, feet etc would not clearly fall into the category of beauty that is meant to be hidden. Furthermore, the verse clearly brackets what beauty it is referring to by saying "...the child who has not yet understood the composition of women" implying it is relating to what is specific to a woman (i.e. what is different between man and woman) nothing else.
This understanding would also fit with The Quran's instruction on the body parts that are to be cleansed during daily ablution (hands, arms, face, head and feet), see 5:6, 4:43.

69

General Discussions / Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?

« on: October 17, 2019, 04:50:58 PM »

peace brother Hamzeh,

Thank you for your considered reply. I note however you made no attempt to answer any of the questions cited in the list.

why does God call out to him "O' Abraham, Surely you have believed/confirmed the vision...." when yet Abraham still has not departed or separated from his son at this point.

What is the significance of this?

We do not know when Abraham was called, i.e. if it was immediately after this goodbye embrace, or shortly after etc. Either way my view works perfectly.

If you insist your argument has merit then the same argument can be said against your view, i.e. no actual slaughter took place.

...the son was said he would bare patience while the command was carried. So the command at this stage if taken as separation was not yet carried out nor did the son need to have patience because no separation was done yet and also the significance of the verse when God has called "O' Abraham" has been totally undermined and given little significance.

Please provide your Quranic evidence for your interpretation of the word in red bold above. Again, if you insist your argument has merit then the same argument can be said against your view, i.e. no actual slaughter had yet been carried out.
Interestingly, in your view the patience seems to refer to the son with his head down waiting patiently for the knife to strike (or whatever the slaughter method would be) - if you think this is befitting then each to their own. In any case the son being patient in your interpretation contradicts your interpretation of being flung down, as you put it. I mention this issue in Q4 in my list.

I am also not sure how you interpreted 3:107. You said "In the Abraham leaving scenario the "great/mighty sacrifice" would refer to the great sacrifice made by leaving his beloved son, making it a self-contained explanation."

What is the exchanged or ransom that was done by God for the operation to Abraham? the verse says "Wafadaynahu bithibhin AAatheemin"- "We ransomed him with a sacrifice great".

Would this make sense to say " we ransomed him(Abraham) with a great separation"?

The son was exchanged/ransomed with a mighty/great sacrifice, which Abraham made by separating from his son. This mighty deed was taken into account by God and he/they were rewarded as a result. It is a self contained explanation because there is absolutely nothing else mentioned in context. I prefer this rather than interpolating a sacrificial animal for example, which is the common understanding.

I also disagree with your view that my understanding somehow undermines other aspects of Quranic narratives. In fact, the opposite argument could be made, it is your view that undermines various aspects.


What I found most interesting about your reply was that your view seems to suffer from the objections you raised about mine. Once an attempt has been made to answer the questions in the list I think it will become obvious which view has the most issues, but as always, each to their own.

70

General Discussions / Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?

« on: October 12, 2019, 02:57:17 AM »

I have now updated the article with a list of test questions at the end so people can put their understanding to the test.

Direct link.

71

General Discussions / Re: Is there any doctrine for asking to Prophet 3 times ?

« on: September 29, 2019, 04:48:01 AM »

Nothing in Quran with respect to that AFAIK.

You might find this interesting: [source] quote:

And finally... there are only two verses in the entire Quran which mentions the word hadith and the Prophet together in the same verse.

1) It tells us what happened when the Prophet told his wives a hadith:

The Prophet had trusted some of his wives with a certain hadith, then one of them spread it, and GOD let him know about it. He then informed his wife of part of the issue, and disregarded part. She said: ‘who informed you of this?’. He said: ‘I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert’. [66:3]
If the two of you repent to GOD, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then GOD is his ally, and so is Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the angels are his helpers. [66:4]
If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submissive, believers, obedient, repentant, worshipers, pious, either previously married, or virgins. [66:5]

2) It tells us that those with the prophet should not stay and wait around for hadith of his when at his house, clearly showing that God differentiates between the hadith of the prophet and His hadith (as contained in The Quran), i.e. they are unequal and unecessary:

O you who believe, do not enter the prophet's homes except if you are invited to a meal, without you forcing such an invitation. But if you are invited, you may enter. And when you finish eating, you shall leave, without staying to wait for hadith. This used to bother the prophet, and he was shy to tell you. But God does not shy away from the truth. And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm God's messenger, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offence with God. [33:53]

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General Discussions / Re: Atheist /disbelievers demands there are huge problems in theists.

« on: September 29, 2019, 04:26:55 AM »

The Quran's answer is The Quran itself.

You may find this Quranic argument interesting:
http://www.quran434.com/Does-God-Exist.pdf

73

Islamic Duties / Re: Quranic way of praying? Is it reading the Quran? 17:78?

« on: September 14, 2019, 11:57:29 PM »

peace Sstikstof,

s1c4r1us says "i believe 17:78 has the detail of what prayer is, to read the Quran. It's that simple. It says the Quran at dawn is witnessed, so when we pray, we read the Quran."

In your reply to their post, you seem to cite 20:14 as strong evidence for "salat=prayer" yet the evidence you bring is not strong at all. More accurately, what you present is simply one side of the story (the story you agree with aka confirmation bias).

Anyone can look up the roots you mentioned and see they have a much wider meaning than the ones you presented. We can also check the usage in Quran.

Further, it is rather obvious that reading Quran involves remembering God, thus fulfilling "for my remembrance" mentioned in 20:14. And if there was any doubt, see:

20:113 And it was such that We sent it down an Arabic revelation, and We cited in it the warnings, perhaps they will become aware or it will cause for them a remembrance*

*exact same word as used in 20:14.


#####

For those wishing to study any topic in Quran I recommend trying, as best one can, not to read with pre-conceived notions / bias, and apply a robust/systematic approach.

74

Women / Re: Prophet Job/Aiyub beating his wife (38:44)

« on: September 05, 2019, 05:32:11 AM »

peace,

Re: 1)
i dont consider it credible due to it not fitting the Arabic.

Re: 2)If the masculine preposition "hi" in "bihi" can refer to ahl/people then I guess it is theoretically possible, however it would be an unusual application as it would imply a non-literal rendering of "and take in/with your hand a handful..."

As I said the rendering in my previous post has the following qualities:
"To conclude, the understanding presented here for the story of Job fits the grammar, the Arabic, Classical Arabic meanings, logic, cross-referencing and is a self-contained explanation. "

I personally have not come across an understanding more cogent than the above.

75

Islamic Duties / Re: Prayer according to the Qur'an

« on: September 04, 2019, 05:32:16 AM »

peace,

Your translations are unusual. Are they your own?

For a simple list of what Quran says about salat see here.