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Offline optimist

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In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« on: December 27, 2013, 09:05:04 AM »
Salaam!

In the divine system every individual works to full capacity, but keeps only what he needs, whilst leaving the remainder of his earnings open for the benefit of society. 

And they ask you as to what they should spend (in God's cause). Say: ‘Whatever is surplus to your needs’ (2:219)

In the divine system the responsibility of ensuring that sustenance reaches each and every member of society falls on the administration (11:6).  It will take care of their children as well (17:31)

The Quran says:  “Satan threatens you with the prospect of poverty and bids you to be miserly (fahsha) - Whereas God promises you His forgiveness (ghafr) and bounty” (2:268).  (The word ghafr is usually translated as ‘forgive’, the word ghafr actually means “protect” or “succor”).

In the above, the Quran has explained the difference between man-made and divine system in just a few words.  In the former every individual is responsible for meeting his own needs, and in this type of society the individual is worried only about his own future. He lives in constant fear of a day in which he is unable (for whatever reason) to provide for himself and his children.  He is forced to live in the fear of threat of poverty.  This powerful feeling of insecurity is the underlying root of the need to hoard to the grave (102-1-2)

In the divine system no one shall be allowed to hoard wealth and hoarding of wealth will be considered a grave crime with dire consequences (9:35). 

But as for those who lay up treasures of gold and silver and do not spend them for the sake of God – give them the tiding of grievous suffering (in the life to come) (9:34)

The words infaaq fe sabil-allah in the above verse is usually translated as ‘spend in the path of God’ needs proper explanation.  Nafaq (from which infaaq is derived) refers to a tunnel that is open at both ends (the antonym of nafaq is sarb, which is a one-way tunnel closed at the other end.  The meaning of infaaq in the Quran is to leave resources open to everyone.  In the Quran, in fact, bukhal is used as the antonym of infaaaq.  Bukhal means ‘stinginess’ or ‘meanness’, i.e to ‘to keep to oneself’, or ‘to hold onto’ or ‘hoard’.  Contrary to this, the meaning of infaaq is to ‘keep open’ for the benefit of everyone, or ‘open up’, and to ‘remove restrications’.  Therefore any society that bases itself on the principle of infaaq fi sabil-allah is one in the which every individual leaves open the fruit of his labour for the benefit of the collective. He/she will not place restrictions on what he/she gives away.  Every member of this society will constantly keep the interest of the whole in mind, thus place the collective interest above self interest.

An aside:  according to one hadith: Ibn-e-Abbas says that when this verse (9:34) was revealed to the messenger, the believers were confounded. They became heavy-hearted.  Umar Ibn Khattab said to them, ‘I will take your trouble away and ease your hardship’.  Thereupon Umar went to the Messenger and beseeched him. ‘Oh Messenger of God! This verse has troubled your companions. The Messenger replied. ‘This is why God has made Zakaat obligatory, so that the rest of wealth will become purified: and (similarly), inheritance laws have been made obligatory to ensure that those you leave behind after death will receive your wealth’. Upon hearing the Messenger’s reply, Umar happily declared : “God is great! (Abu Dhaud, citing from Mishqaat, chapter Kitab al Zakaat)[/i]

It is clear from the tone of the above hadith that it is an invented hadith. Numerous verses testify that the believers hearts would never become ‘heavy’ at hearing a divine command (See 8:2, 13:28, 16:22, 22:35, 23:60, 48:4, 58:22).  In fact it is the hypocrites whose hearts become heavy at hearing divine commandments (e.g. 47:24, 9:125)

In the divine system neither the land nor its resources can be taken into private ownership.  These are left open for the benefit of all (41:10)

In Surah Al Ra’d, it is said that an idea struck the mind of the prophet: ‘Whether the revolution for which I have spent my whole life, will be accomplished in my life time or not?’ He replied: ‘You do not bother yourself whether this will be fulfilled during this life of yours or otherwise, you have to see that this Message is publicised. It will meet its fulfillment either during you worldly life or otherwise. Don’t you see how We are limiting and reducing the land and its area from the big landholders”. This is Our verdict (that their ownership on land shall be terminated), and no power on earth can invert Our verdict. Very soon We will call them to account’ (13:41).

In Surah Al Anbiya’, it is said: ‘They and their ancestors got the land to produce means of livelihood. With the lapse of time they established their adverse possession. Now We are gradually withdrawing it from their hands. Our program will get accomplished undoubtedly. They will not win over Us’ (21:44). In the power achieved due to landlordism, there is an indication that it will be abolished.

                                                                                                       .........to be continued
Regards
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

Offline Ismail

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 09:32:15 PM »
Salaam.

The Hereafter is based wholly on the freedom of the individual regarding capacity, ownership, needs, etc.

Any Government is entitled to a very limited portion, just enough to carry out the various aspects of Administration.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.




Offline optimist

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2014, 07:35:38 AM »
Salaam.

The Hereafter is based wholly on the freedom of the individual regarding capacity, ownership, needs, etc.

Any Government is entitled to a very limited portion, just enough to carry out the various aspects of Administration.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Wassalam,
I feel like you meant to post this in the other thread we already discussed! I can't find any link to the topic.
Regards,
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

Offline optimist

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2014, 07:52:05 AM »
Continued from initial post;

The Land belongs to Allah alone :-

To state this fact, the Quran has quoted an event of the people of Thamud. It states that cattle-rearing was the means of livelihood of the people of Thamud. There were open grazing lands and water points in the surroundings, but the leaders of that nation had kept them under their individual control. Due to this, cattle of the weaker sections used to remain hungry and thirsty. Prophet Saleh raised voice against the oppression and violence of those chiefs who asked him as to what he wanted finally. He replied: ‘I want that as this land belongs to Allah, it is neither yours nor mine, and these cattle are also created by Him. Therefore, these animals should have freedom to graze on the land of their Allah. In what way you have the right that you fix up boundaries on arzullah (land of Allah) this way that His creatures cannot cross the boundaries fixed by you on His land (7:73; 11:64).

"This she-camel of Allah is a Sign unto you: So leave her to graze in Allah's earth, and let her come to no harm, or ye shall be seized with a grievous punishment"(7:73)

In the land of Madyan, an event of this kind had occurred with Prophet Moses where the herdsmen of the tribal chiefs did not allow the cattle of weak and feeble girls to take water from the water points (28:23). 

The people of Saleh asked him ‘What should be the practical approach to this problem?’ Prophet Saleh said: ‘This is a very simple matter. You fix up the turns of the animals irrespective of the animal belonging to whom; it should take water at its turn.’ (26:155; 91:13). The meaning of ‘fixing the turns’ itself is that this is not the personal property of anyone. This is for the benefit of everyone.

The land is the means of livelihood for the entire mankind; it cannot become anybody’s personal property and giving it practically under the ownership of individuals is paganism, it is kufr.

                                                                                                      .........to be continued
Regards,
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

Offline Ismail

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2014, 02:43:51 PM »
Salaam.

Cultivated land is what is generally held as private property. Who in the world, has ever prohibited this?

Normally, the rest is either public grazing fields, or hunting grounds, or inaccessible, rocky, hilly areas. In our times especially, there is more prominence for mining, quarrying, power production, protected wild life sanctuaries, etc; outside cultivated fields.

Royal grazing grounds were, as an exception, a need of the times, in order to maintain Cavalries, etc.

Where is the clear cut evidence in the Qur'an that in the time of Salih (peace be on all God's prophets), the question was that of monopolizing of grazing grounds?

After all, in those times, this blessed globe was very thinly populated.

As for Shu'aib's daughters, they never complained, nor did anybody remark, that the herdsmen were tyrannically preventing them from watering their animals.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Offline optimist

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 05:49:26 AM »
Where is the clear cut evidence in the Qur'an that in the time of Salih (peace be on all God's prophets), the question was that of monopolizing of grazing grounds?

Actually it does not require much intelligence to know the problem of monopolizing of grazing grounds was the issue.   Just the following single verse 26:155 is sufficient to prove this point.   Prophet Salih suggested fixing up the turns of the animals irrespective of the animal belonging to whom which the monopolists objected and went even to the extent of killing the camel.   

[Mohamed Asad] Replied he: "This she-camel shall have a share of water, and you shall have a share of water, on the days appointed [therefor].

[Yousuf Ali] He said: "Here is a she-camel: she has a right of watering, and ye have a right of watering, (severally) on a day appointed.

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Cultivated land is what is generally held as private property. Who in the world, has ever prohibited this?

No wonder you mentioned “generally held as private property”.  You have to remove from your mind all pre-conceived notions to understand Quranic points. 

According to the Quran, whatever in the heavens and on earth belong to Allah alone.  The earth is the medium for the production of all means of subsistence, which are provided freely for the benefit of humanity.  Wind, water, light, heat and the earth, all of which exist for our sustenance and are freely given by Allah, should actually be left equally open for all human being.

[Muhammed Asad] For He [it is who, after creating the earth,] placed firm mountains on it, [towering] above its surface, and bestowed [so many] blessings on it, and equitably apportioned its means of subsistence to all who would seek it: [and all this He created] in four aeons. (41:10)

And the earth – We have spread it out wide, and placed on it mountains firm, and caused [life] of every kind to grow on it in a balanced manner,  and provided thereon means of livelihood for you [O men] as well as for all [living beings] whose sustenance does not depend on you (15:19-20)

And the earth has He spread out for all living beings (55:10)

Weigh, therefore, [every decision and act] with equity, and cut not the measure short!(55:9)

From the above, it should be clear that all natural resources are God given, and their purpose is to sustain the whole of humanity.  For this no one has the right to create artificial barriers and divisions and declare ownership of these resources. 

All [of them] – these as well as those – do We freely endow with some of thy Sustainer's gifts, since thy Sustainer's giving is never confined [to one kind of man] (17:20)

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In our times especially, there is more prominence for mining, quarrying, power production, protected wild life sanctuaries, etc; outside cultivated fields.

In our times, even things like mining, quarrying and power productions are privately owned and these evil forces even control governments in countries like India

Regards,
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

Offline Ismail

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2014, 06:03:03 PM »
Salaam.

According to you, yaumwhose plural is in the Verse, means eons.

According to dictionary.reference.com, there are three meanings. Which one do you think rightly fits into the intention of the Author of Al Qur'an?

eon
noun
1. an indefinitely long period of time; age.
2. the largest division of geologic time, comprising two or more eras.
3. Astronomy . one billion years.

Nowhere is it written that banning ownership of land is a remedy for injustice.

You said, industrialists (evil forces, according to you) sometimes control governments.

Industrialists need not necessarily be evil forces.

They may even be able to pressurize governments to eschew injustice.

There is no evidence at all in the Qur'an that Moses and Saleh (Allah's peace and His choicest blessings be on all His prophets and their followers.) were deputed to fight ownership of land.

Nor does the incidence at Madyan, or the episode of Saleh, clearly and unequivocally relate to ownership of land.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait. 



Offline optimist

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2014, 08:52:39 AM »
Which one do you think rightly fits into the intention of the Author of Al Qur'an?
Salaam!

I do not want to probe the “intention”…..but contextually, it is suffice to state that, wherever the word ‘yaum’ is used in the Quran it does not necessarily mean ‘day’ which is only 24 hours long….it could be time, or period, or age, or some ‘stage’ as maaliki yaumid deen (1:3). ….. and all this according to man’s calculations can be a thousand years long: summa ya’ruju ilaihi fi yaumin kaana miqdaaruhu alfa sanatin mimma tu’addoon: 32:5 obviously here yaum means either stage or era or evolutionary period; this yaum is sometime fifty thousand years long as mentioned in verse 70:4.

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Nowhere is it written that banning ownership of land is a remedy for injustice.

It is a major offence against humanity someone becoming owner of means of subsistence which are freely given by Allah for the benefit of whole humanity.  Even using our logic alone we can easily understand the issue.

1.   Land and other means of subsistence existed on earth before the creation of man. Now viewed from any angle and rule of any law based on justice, can anyone be held as an owner of these resources of subsistence (heat, light, air, water, and land) which should be available indiscriminately for the life’s sustenance.   Today you can say that you have purchased this piece of land from such and such person, or you got it from your father by way of inheritance. You go on inverting this sequence and reach that person who had first claimed this land as his own property; you can imagine that from whom he had purchased this, or from whom he had inherited?  How do you ensure that the lands obtained initially or the subsequent purchases done are devoid of any fraudulent transactions?  How it could be lawful for him or for his successors subsequently to hold it under their possession?

2.   How can you satisfactory resolve the problem of large capital attracting small capital?   The humanity is slowly moving to a direction where the land will be in the possession of small group of wealthy people.  I was to my native country last week and I notice that the land value has increased two to three folds in just one year (it is over 10-15 times in the last 5 year alone).   People with purchasing power are accumulating the land and it has become beyond the reach of more than 70% of the people in our area to purchase any land to build a house or to set up any business.  At the moment, only those who have inherited the land from their forefathers are in a safe position....but this "safety" also will be over after one generation or two because the land is getting divided into children and at one stage they will be forced to sell the land to any wealthy man (who offers more money) and divide the money among them because the share of land will be so limited to use it for any individual purpose.  A major crisis stage is slowly approaching. 

More points later.

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Industrialists need not necessarily be evil forces.

I did not say all industrialists are evil forces.  But it is just a fact that,  in all countries, only a handful of individuals and industrialists control most of the wealth of the nation.  Capitalist system is a system in which large capital attracts small capital.  The Quran has explained this problem through the following incident from prophet David (38:23-25).

Two disputants came to David and requested him to resolve their issue.  The plaintiff said - This man is my brother and he has a flock of ninety-nine ewes and is thus well to do.  I have only one which is my sole source of income.  And instead of giving up some ewes from his stock to help his poor brother, he is asking me to give my only ewe to him.  (Since he is rich and influential) He always prevails in argument (in a capitalist system such apparent contradiction can be easily justified).  This is the attitude of my brother.  Now tell me is his attitude allowable or not?  When prophet David pondered over this episode deeply, he came to the conclusion that it was a case of an extreme unjust economic system, in which large capital attracts the smaller capital.  The outcome is that the rich become richer and the poor become poorer; and gradually the gap between these two groups widens.

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Nor does the incidence at Madyan, or the episode of Saleh, clearly and unequivocally relate to ownership of land.

Even a child should be able to understand it is clearly and unequivocally relate to people controlling the natural resources and exercising ownership over them.

Regards,
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

Offline Ismail

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2014, 02:01:16 PM »
Salaam.

What do you mean by "some ‘stage’ as maaliki yaumid deen (1:3)"?

"How do you ensure that the lands obtained initially or the subsequent purchases done are devoid of any fraudulent transactions?"

Answer: (5:101), (6:152).

"A major crisis stage is slowly approaching".

Ans: It may be either way. Trade and Commerce this! Prices may either increase or decrease. Why panic?

"This man is my brother and he has a flock of ninety-nine ewes and is thus well to do."

How did you say that?

"I have only one which is my sole source of income."

How did you know?

"And instead of giving up some ewes from his stock to help his poor brother, he is asking me to give my only ewe to him."

Such redundant remarks can throw our whole focus off the mark.

"He always prevails in argument."

He never said this.

"..he came to the conclusion that it was a case of an extreme unjust economic system, in which large capital attracts the smaller capital.."

Injustices in which a person prevails upon another in order to dupe him, should not be blamed on any one system.

"Even a child should be able to understand it is clearly and unequivocally relate to people controlling the natural resources and exercising ownership over them." 

A sturdy, good-natured male, helping out a weak, shy female at busy public water taps are a common sight to see.

What has ownership of land anything to do with this?

Water holes in deserts are not anybody's property. The insistence of Saleh on a certain sharing of water was only regarding just one particular she camel.

That it was a test preceded by water hole monopoly or land grabbing/land mafia, is neither mentioned nor clearly evident.

The injunction regarding the 'Camel of God' (91:13) was a last chance (to test their obedience), and a final ultimatum to the disobedient people of Saleh. Their disobedience has not been specified as being that of water hole monopoly.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.




 

 

 



                     

Offline optimist

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2014, 08:07:07 PM »

"This man is my brother and he has a flock of ninety-nine ewes and is thus well to do."

How did you say that?

How did you ask such a ridiculous question?  It is just a common sense that one person having ninety-nine ewes, when compared to another person having just one ewe, is a well to do person.

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"I have only one which is my sole source of income."

How did you know?

This is what the poor man is stating.....just a common sense way of understanding.

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"And instead of giving up some ewes from his stock to help his poor brother, he is asking me to give my only ewe to him."

Such redundant remarks can throw our whole focus off the mark.

Not necessarily.....actually as a brother, the rich man was supposed to support him instead of demanding the one and only ewe the poor man possessed.

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"He always prevails in argument."

He never said this.

(Pickthall) and he conquered me in speech 38:23
(shakir) has prevailed against me in discourse.
(Mohamed Asad) forcibly prevailed against me in this [our] dispute.
Oh sorry! qxp may be acceptable for you...."and he dominates me in eloquence”

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Injustices in which a person prevails upon another in order to dupe him, should not be blamed on any one system.

Kindly explain what system was prevailing there.

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Water holes in deserts are not anybody's property. The insistence of Saleh on a certain sharing of water was only regarding just one particular she camel.

Haha! so according to your amazing logic, they had problem with only one particular camel drinking water and they were willing to allow all other camels irrespective of to whom it belonged.  Good logic...keep it up.

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That it was a test preceded by water hole monopoly or land grabbing/land mafia, is neither mentioned nor clearly evident.

If then why prophet saleh suggested fixing up the turns of the animals??   

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The injunction regarding the 'Camel of God' (91:13) was a last chance (to test their obedience), and a final ultimatum to the disobedient people of Saleh. Their disobedience has not been specified as being that of water hole monopoly.

The final ultimatum was specifically related not to prevent the camel from drinking water.   You said "their disobedience has not been specified......"  What was their disobedience according to you???    Even any child should be able to understand that their disobedience was related to preventing the camel from drinking the water (ignoring prophet saleh‘s request to fix up turns). 

Regards
Optimist                 
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

Offline optimist

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 04:54:06 AM »
Salaam brother Ismail,

The tone of some of my comments were different....sorry!  I can't edit my comments.  I kindly request you to focus on the followings;

1. Just think why prophet saleh gave an ultimatum, a final test, warning the people of dire consequences if they prevent the camel from taking water.  Prophet saleh knew that they are going to forcibly prevent the camel from taking water.  Their disobedience was linked to sharing the water (that's why saleh suggested fixing up the turns of the animals)

2. The test and the final ultimatum given by prophet saleh to the people was not linked to killing the camel, but linked to permitting the camel to drink water in her turn.

3. If there was no issue of monopolizing water sources,  the issue would have been a simple matter of a camel drinking water and there was absolutely no reason for people to make objections (no warning was even necessary).

Kindly think

Regards
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2014, 05:19:00 AM »
The tone of some of my comments were different....sorry!

Dear Optimist,

We are glad that you have apologized. That is very good of you. It is best that any exchange is kept on the side of academia and not 'sarcasm'. This will keep the standards of this forum up.

Thank you!

Offline Ismail

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2014, 07:28:32 PM »
Salaam.

These are my thoughts on Optimist's second of the two latest posts.

(1)  Saleh insisted that his camel and their camels share water according to fixed timings. He also insisted that his camel be allowed to freely graze without undue hindrance. The ultimatum was that they should not harm it! Else, grave punishment would befall them.

The disobedience need not necessarily have been particularly linked to any previous dispute regarding sharing of water, or any dispute regarding land.

Saleh's ultimate, fateful insistence was only regarding his camel, which he called God's Camel. There is no mention of any oppressors or the oppressed regarding herds of animals belonging to different people.

(2)  Saleh, like every other prophet, invited them to single minded devotion to God in every respect.

They kept disobeying him, until the Divinely Ordained Test of God's Camel.

(3)  The issue, all along, was not at all "that of a single camel drinking water".

The issue was continuous, obstinate disobedience [as in (2)], to none other than the Almighty Himself.

Regards,
A. Ismail Sait.

Offline optimist

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2014, 08:29:20 AM »
They kept disobeying him, until the Divinely Ordained Test of God's Camel.

Salaam!

Unfortunately, you are still unable to appreciate and grasp the real facts.   The Quran narrates different stories of people belonging to past nations and the different inequities they created in their societies.   Apart from their general disbelief in Allah and His messengers, Quran also focus on the different evils prevailed in those societies, which, altogether, ultimately led to their destruction.  The prophets came and taught them the true path guided them and warned them, however, when their rebelliousness went beyond a certain stage, they were all destroyed.   

You are focusing here on "GOD's camel" as if this particular camel was sent from the sky.  Infact everything including all camels belong to Allah.   The camel was a material symbol of God in that context and that is why it was called naqatullah (Camel of God) and ayat (sign) See 7:73. It was a symbol (lakum ayatan) to determine whether they, (the people) stuck to the agreement (will be explained below).  It also served as a final warning,  failing which they will have no opportunity to mend their ways.  They had to be sufficiently warned that they will be directly violating divine directives if they harm or prevent the camel.

Have you ever thought why they were tested with a she camel?   What is the relevance of Camel?   How it is connected to "disobedience" to Allah?  Do you think they killed the she camel because it belonged to Allah??   Do you think that the people were involed in a killing spree of whater belonged to Allah and prophet saleh just chose as a final warning a random animal as a she-camel to test them whether they would kill something belonged to Allah?

The Quran clearly states Thamud people created inequities on earth 7:73.  How??  They had shortage of water.  Whatever water was accumulated, was reserved by the big-wigs of the community for themselves and their animals and the animals of the poor died of thirst (note, the weaker sections of the population supported Saleh 7:74).  Prophet Saleh told these people that, to reserve the water for a section of the people which has been provided by God free of cost for all creations is unjust.  He warned them to desist from this path or they would be destroyed.  Thus after a lot of argument they agreed that everyone should water their animals by turn (note, in 26:155 the warning is very specific that the she camel should be allowed to drink water on its appointed day and time).  Therefore, to test their commitment to the agreement, which Saleh would let loose a she camel and see whether it was allowed by them to drink water in its turn.  If it was allowed to drink on its turn then it would mean that they were  sticking to the agreement but if they didn’t then it would mean that they had made the agreement only superficially. This is what happened and they killed the camel heartlessly.

I advise you to desist from superficial reading of the Quran.  In whatever language you try to explain the she camel and its relevance in the story of Thamud, ignoring what I stated above, you will fail miserably to give a satisfactory logical explanation.  One of the qualities of true servants of God is mentioned in the Quran as; those who when they are reminded of their Lord's verses, they do not fall on them deaf and blind (25:73).


Regards,
Optimist
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal

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Re: In the divine system every individual keeps only what he needs!!
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 09:30:29 AM »
In the above post, mistakenly I mentioned 7:74 instead of 7:75.  The verse states  "The chief men of his people who were arrogant said to those who were considered weak -- those among them who believed -`Do you know for certain that Salih is one sent by his Lord?' They answered, 'Surely, we believe in that which he has been sent".
The meaning which was lost in all our divisions will not be understood until our perceptions become untainted -  Allama Iqbal