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Offline AbbsRay

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verse 86:5-7
« on: February 19, 2014, 03:26:03 AM »
Salaam brother Joseph,

Do you have anything on verses 86:5-7?

It certainly is not backbone/ribs/ nor a female anatomy.

(86:7:4) l-ṣul'bi   the backbone    يَخْرُجُ مِنْ بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ

(86:7:5) wal-tarāibi   and the ribs    يَخْرُجُ مِنْ بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ


I have medical terms of the anatomy possibly what Allah is referring to... But doesn't look like they exist in Arabic terms. 

Some tried to correct Quran Corpus putting Loin... And the female anatomy... But it doesn't make sense.

Thanks


Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 07:20:09 AM »
Wa alaikum assalam Abbsrayray

This is a very good question and as you have noted, a highly debated and somewhat contentious matter. I think it best that I dedicate a short paper / article on this with a view to share my perspective given that I have some old notes on this which I would like to share and which I have never put to article form.

I will deal with this issue soon, God willing as I do think it is a good verse to comment on. I will let you know on this forum when the article is published to the site and other portals, God willing.

Your brother in faith,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline good logic

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 03:19:06 PM »
Greetings Abbsrayray.

Here is an explanation to have a look at if you wish?

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/archive/index.php/t-2602.html

Check all information as per [17:36]

GOD bless you.
Peace.
Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=197

Offline Saba

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 07:32:19 PM »
Salaam br Joseph. I look forward to your perspective on this too....Saba

Offline AbbsRay

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 08:06:52 AM »
Salamun Alaikum BJ,

Thank You...take your time. I was pondering on it for a while myself and all my research is lost on my lap top that crashed..  >:(
I have narrowed it down, but I don't want to say it is that because I'm not sure, I don't want to twist Allah's words and meanings around.

Looking forward to see your thoughts..

salaam


Offline AbbsRay

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 08:26:23 AM »
Salaam Good Logic,

Thank You  :)
I tend to stay away from scholars interpretations. ..
Most if not all of the muslim doctors who are explaining it on these sites are without doubt WRONG!  :-X
I think they are just reading the verses and not studying other verses in the Quran in regards to creation.
A lot came up with these ideas and translations to justify the what Allah means to Islamic Critics.. science is not concrete facts and I think the Quran proved scientists wrong many times. I don't think many people see the Quran not being a science book... they certainly have signs in it... its never wrong so I'm not looking to cooperate with science, I'm just a geek who is interested in how things are created from Allah or functions...

My God, some one silence a guy name Bassam Zawadi off You Tube.  The man is absolutely clueless about Islam... Islam overall.  He should mot speak for Islam nor should anyone who's confused or misguided. Is he shia? He said something about Islam tells us, Muslim's, to uphold the scholars/Imams infallible if they all agree on meaning on verses, therefore Muslim's are to go what they say on the meaning. Sounds like a misguided cult to me..


Salaam



Offline Truth Seeker

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 08:49:09 AM »
Salaam Abbsrayray / readers


Please see below attempted critiques by Bassam Zawadi on Joseph Islam's Articles on this forum  As you will note, brother Joseph remained respectful, responded properly, but unfortunately there came a point on Facebook, where Bassam continued to write sarcastic remarks on Joseph's Facebook page and getting personal after which discussions with Bassam were stopped. If people cannot behave and keep basic ettiquettes during academic discussions, there is no point discussing matters with them. It seems like when people do not  like what is said to them or they cannot properly defend their position, they get personal!


Direct Exchanges:

1 - Joseph Islam's Article "THE SEVEN AHRUF, RECITATIONS (QIRAAT), HAFS AND WARSH"
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=840

2 - Joseph Islam's Article "THE COMPILATION OF THE QURAN"
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=836.0

3 - Joseph Islam's Article "HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THE QURAN WAS FULLY PRESERVED? ...."
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=837

4 - Joseph Islam's Article "EXCLUSIVENESS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)"
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=833

5 - Joseph Islam's Article "ALLEGED MURDER SANCTIONED BY THE PROPHET - OVERLAP OF...
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=834

6 - Preservation of the Quran
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=682

Offline AbbsRay

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 11:16:27 AM »
Salaam Truth Seeker,

thank You, I will read them Inshallah.

May Allah send a cure for ignorance, Ya Rubbi please!!!!!

 I was sent the clip from my co worker who asked me why he's saying things differently, (he was in a debate with a church full of people :o)  than I have been about Islam..

I never say anything about verses I don't know or make it clear I'm not sure.. At least some of us are fearful of Allah to do that.

I feel so sorry.. I mean so sorry for those who follow blindly...

I would love to walk in on one of his debates and correct him.. Lol  ;D

Offline good logic

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 02:18:18 PM »
Greetings Abbsrayray.

I agree. However there is nothing wrong with reading information, if we check and disregard what is false/ rubbish...

GOD has thrown the truth( Qoran) at falsehood ( Most of man made stuff/books...which  is nonsense and conjecture) and it is giving it a big hit ( It will be shown up) ...

As long as we keep using the Qoran as a guide to check our information (If GOD is not diverting us from His truth), we will be fine.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=197

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 12:59:57 AM »
Salam Sister Saba We shall Inshallah wait to see Bro JAI's explanation on this subject Inshallah
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 01:02:30 AM »
Dear good logic Salam By the way do you have a web site  of God Alone? Thanks
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline good logic

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2014, 02:07:41 AM »
Greetings Sardar.

Do you mean the following  website?:

http://www.total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/website-pages/democracy-v-god-s-system/

I have not written any new articles in this website for a while, may be in the future GOD willing.

I tend to advise others to study Qoran, mainly.

Also I am sure if you search the internet , you will find more GOD Alone websites.

Thank you for asking.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
Total loyalty to GOD
In GOD i TRUST.
https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/?page_id=197

Offline AbbsRay

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2014, 02:20:50 AM »
Salam Sister Saba We shall Inshallah wait to see Bro JAI's explanation on this subject Inshallah

Salaam Good Logic,

I believe I have a pretty good Idea now what the second word is referring to.

I read what others wrote on a site which confused me and had my thinking focused on male vs female. That's why I like researching it from scratch because you will end up looking for words or explanations that have nothing to do with the verse at all. Which put me in a view of not including the female which as a matter of fact the female is being referred to as the male.

I went to an IVF clinic yesterday, one of my friends is a doctor there and it helped a lot which narrows it down. It helped in a sense to know the exact area of the body it is even possible.  What makes sense now also is when they do Invetro, I am sure Allah knew that was going to happen in the future when the verse came down, and how He said the verses 5-7 the way He did. Subhana Allah He sure covered everything incase someone tries to criticize His words...

  It is not no rib, no bones nothing.. the issue is with muslims or even others think because that is what is in the dictionary that it might be right, it isn't. And there are words in the Quran that we will never know the truth meaning of the word or verse itself. The issue with this verse I think is everyone thought because of the backbone and rib or how every Quran that is translated besides Arabic has Man, him, he instead of the word referring to both female and male. It distorts the whole verse. In Arabic man is not the term to refer all humans like how other languages have.

I am going to work on research more, I am planning to InshaAllah send it to Brother Joseph and hopefully we all will be able to understand it. It is too much information to put all on here, although it is three simple verses, one has to have their proof to back it up.

May Allah guide...





Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2014, 02:38:01 AM »
Dear Abbsrayray / all

As-salam alaykum

As promised, please see my humble perspective on the rendition of these verses. I hope you find at least some use from the content shared.

VERSE 86:7 - HUMAN CREATION
http://quransmessage.com/articles/verse%2086-7%20FM3.htm

Kind regards,
Joseph
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Wakas

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Re: verse 86:5-7
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2014, 03:45:52 AM »
For those interested, this has been discussed several times on the free-minds forum.