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Offline Sardar Miyan

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Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« on: April 14, 2014, 09:43:11 PM »
Physical  Prostration.  48:29
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مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاءُ عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاءُ بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ذَٰلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَىٰ عَلَىٰ سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا
48:29
Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that've is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.
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This Ayah tells us that because of Sujood there used be marks on their a forehead of Muslims. This negates the people who are the opinion that there is no Salath. Secondly Prophet used to place Turba , a piece of earthen piece to do Sajda on it. The Shiahs do Sajda on earthern piece called Turba. I want to know of Allah is telling actual marks on the Foreheads of Muslims in this Ayah? Thanks
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Offline Saba

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 12:27:38 AM »
Bro Sardar. Salaam. I think you know the answer to this q of yours and I also think you know that some so called 'Qur'anists' that change the meanings of words so it can fit what they believe are not going to agree with you or me....so why bother asking this question???? The Qur'an says it is bec. of prostration. Now to change the meaning - some Qur'anists will first try to change the meaning of sajda with all kind of lengthy articles and then change the meaning of 'marks'..and say .. voila!!! look this does not mean prostration!!.I also think this may have already be covered on the forum but you can look it up if u want to. Saba

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 03:17:05 AM »
Thanks Sister Saba. Can you please give reference to the discussion taken place on this Forum so that I may not remind Bro Joseph for clarification Thanks again
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Offline Saba

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Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 10:02:43 AM »
Salam Sister Saba In the references you gave Bro Joseph has general discussion with Bro Wakas but did not comment on very subject.Therefore it is need to know his views on marks of Sajda on Foreheads of Muslims who did Prostration.I will ask if the prostration is submission why the word Bowing is used in addition to Sujda?Why two words for same act? Therefore Bowing is kneeling & Sujood ( Prostration ) is act of putting forehead on the ground
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Offline Sword

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 09:08:22 PM »
Dear brother Sardar,


As-salam alaykum.


If you are looking to know brother Joseph's view on verse 48:29, then you may read his article "What is 'Salaat' (Prayer) from the Quran?".

Article link - http://quransmessage.com/articles/quran%20salaat%20FM3.htm


In the above article, you will see that in point number 6, brother Joseph wrote:

 
(6) WHERE DO THESE MARKS OF PROSTRATION COME FROM?

 

    048:029

    “Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from God and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Torah and their description in the Gospels; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; God has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward”



Therefore, I think it is clear from the above that brother Joseph holds the view that the marks on the faces in verse 48:29 are due to physical prostrations.



Regards.

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 04:53:05 AM »
Thanks Bro for help
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Offline Wakas

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 10:53:05 PM »
Here is a helpful post on this:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=571.msg2096#msg2096

Remains unanswered.

Offline Saba

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 11:06:37 PM »
Wakas,

You mean the 1-7 q's? It remains unanswered because 'i think' your questions are pathetic and ridiculous to answer and I can't be bothered with your new Quranist ideas.... Have you thought why I and 'maybe' others don't answer your q's at times and don't read your really long posts? Because they don't make sense half the time.  So pls don't be sneaky and say things like 'remains unanswered'... trying to catch me out or show that your questions have stumped me. Maybe people don't answer your q's because they can't be bothered with what they think is nonsense!!! have u thought of that? anyway, I told u what I thought of you answering q's with other q's. You have no proof to show that this verse does not mean physical prostration and the marks are bec. of it.... All you have are new questions!.

I reckon this all goes back to the same problem you have with these verses.... You don't want to admit that physical prostration is what the qur'an wanted to say. So now you are trying to question 'sima' and 'athar' etc etc..attempting to change its meanings.. Can you tell us all with your 'grand knowledge' that physical prostration is not the meaning in this verse ....and the marks are not left by prostration? Why can this not be possible???? and if your answer is 'maybe' it can ..then I rest my case!!! Saba

Offline Deliverance

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2014, 04:06:22 AM »
Some are rubbing the place on the forehead with garlic and other substance to make it darker.But Allah dont like the one who is proud and arrogant ,and i think i read in JAI article the could also mean the Aura of a Person is shining through Prostration.I tend to find this Explanation to be correct ,just imagine an Angle who prostrates as much as the one who is bringing forth this mark on the forehead is coming in a Humanbody to People they would be afraid of this look.That´s my opinion to this visibal marks.

wa salam

Offline Wakas

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Re: Marks of Sajda on the Foreheads of Muslims
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 08:24:34 PM »
salaam,

Some are rubbing the place on the forehead with garlic and other substance to make it darker.

Perhaps they do this because the vast majority of people who physically prostrate on the ground many times a day during traditional Muslim prayer don't actually get a mark on their forehead?