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Messages - relearning

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31
General Discussions / Re: Public vs. Private Sin in an Islamic State
« on: April 14, 2017, 07:05:39 PM »
amira i personally may support your view but could you bring some ayats to support that both muslims and pagan can live peacefully both spreading their religion from quran.

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General Discussions / Re: Understanding what is doubts in the quran
« on: April 14, 2017, 07:02:52 PM »
dear ilker i am from turkey as well in istanbul. here is another one i share with you to support my time and history frame:

58:3 (mücadele suresi)
And those who pronounce thihar from their wives and then [wish to] go back on what they said - then [there must be] the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. That is what you are admonished thereby; and Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

Here thihar is a custom of arab men did in the past by saying their wifes your back is like my mother's back and hence produce a divorce statement. but quran says if you do this free a slave. These both practises of thihar and freeing slave is an old world local custom.

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General Discussions / Re: Public vs. Private Sin in an Islamic State
« on: April 14, 2017, 12:27:37 AM »
when reading quran i got the feeling that it aims to create an islamic society. It is purpose is not to create individuals not related each other moving freely by their own. Even at the time of migration muslims who didnt choose to migrate are scolded in quran. So i am not sharing your view that islamic society is a made up religion.

but thanks for sharing your views.

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General Discussions / Re: Understanding what is doubts in the quran
« on: April 14, 2017, 12:09:21 AM »
Ayats for fighting pagans:

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (trans. Yusuf Ali).

for example ayats dealing with slave girls.

Ayats for waiting period after divorce.

Ayats for cutting hands of thiefs. Or ayats for prisoning or whipping for fornification or adultery. Ayats for handing a murderer to the victim's family (And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported isra 33)

Ayats for promising golden bracelets silver dressings for men, or girls waiting in tents all are aiming arabic culture.

we can take the general guideline not the literal ones for example prepare horses for the future wars. (8:60
And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.) But instead we draw general guidelines by using our mind that now we know that we must use todays weapons ready for defense.

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great" is also becoming obsolete in todays world women also becoming members of working class and even some maintaining their family instead of men.

inheritance for men having two whereas female taking one part in todays society it is already obsolete.

Usury or interest ban. Todays modern world stands upon the financial system of which usery is the backbone of it. And all islamic society came out with is profit share which is just a masking name of interest names in banks.

Ayats dealing with your wife when they are in dissented view or they dont obey you the procedure is to give advice to seperate beds and in the end to beat. This ayat mainly aims arabic society with poligamy because if it is not the second option of seperating bed with wife for todays monogamy is only a punishment to husband but in that era of the world man had more than one wife so seperating beds would have an impact on wife.

These are some i can remember. By the way ilker are you from turkey because i am and from your name i deducted this.

35
General Discussions / Re: Understanding what is doubts in the quran
« on: April 13, 2017, 05:57:07 PM »
My general understanding of quran that it is direct audience is the arabians lived in the era of its revelation. Not everything in it concerns us accept general guidelines. Quran must be understood in a historical frame which is bound by time and place of it is origin. I dont take everything literally from quran therefore your being feeling guilty or not regarding being doubtfull of anything in quran for my humble view is unnecessary.

36
General Discussions / Re: Meaning of 55:72 Restrained
« on: April 13, 2017, 04:28:21 PM »
my two cents is that: Quran's direct audience is arabs of its revelation time. So quran speaks in term of their understanding of prize and punishments. Giving examples for local arabs (not universal i believe in this respect). So accepting them as metaphors solves my problem of such ayats.

37
General Discussions / Re: Public vs. Private Sin in an Islamic State
« on: April 13, 2017, 03:48:12 PM »
thanks your kindly reply. my question in its own frame points a dilemma in an islamic society. your points are a different subject. I say for example would you be please that in an islamic society (is not it an aim for believers by the way) will you or other muslims be very ok with idolators to spread their religion and practise it. That is the question. you may answer yes am pleased with it or no i am not.

i am not assuming there is no idolworship in an islamic society. But i am not relating any sect to idolworship it seems unfair to me. But your points distracts my frame of question to another level dear friend. i also believe someone without any religion can have a good relationship with god. But it is different than what i ask here. I dont believe of being priviledged by born in anyway. bu simply please answer my question thanks.


38
General Discussions / Re: Noah's Age 950 Years
« on: April 13, 2017, 03:36:36 PM »
well what attracts my attention is that people in the history who are accompanied to great prophets and were shown great miracles how can they go on refusing such signs. they must be so headless or so uncapable of understanding the true signs. When we review early human history it is easy to spot that people of old times easily given a high statue like 'god' to sun moon stars even natural phenomenons even stones. So how come these people can be so much reluctant not to believe a miracle which is just happening right in front of them considering for example noah living 950 years or in the event of other prophet's miracles a simple example jesus making bird from clay and by blowing it turns to be a living bird or in the event of abraham fire not touching him. Or moses many signs and miracles brought but only few following him. So what makes these ordinary people to easily accept stones stars moon sun fire gods easily but resist mindlessly such open signs miracles! is it because human kind in its nature irrational? or so obvious signs make him suspicous about it? like the saying "the only free cheese is in the mouse trap". is there a bug in human mind? =)

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General Discussions / Re: Understanding what is doubts in the quran
« on: April 13, 2017, 03:22:52 PM »
yahya are you from turkey? doubt is essential in human life without doubt at first you cant reach any certainity it encourages you to dig everything around you and put them into scrutiny double check them etc. so having doubts is no threat to your belief i believe. Actually you must have doubt! I dont think god will like people whom are like sheep following mindlessly who is infront of them. so even challenging god sincerely is the way to go i think that will even please god i believe. so keep having doubts and sincerely continue to search the truth even it is in contradiction to what you have belived so far. by the way turkish people can we get in touch in a specific forum subject here?

40
General Discussions / Re: 5:101 and 57:14
« on: April 13, 2017, 03:19:36 PM »
yahya are you from turkey? doubt is essential in human life without doubt at first you cant reach any certainity it encourages you to dig everything around you and put them into scrutiny double check them etc. so having doubts is no threat to your belief i believe. Actually you must have doubt! I dont think god will like people whom are like sheep following mindlessly who is infront of them. so even challenging god sincerely is the way to go i think that will even please god i believe. so keep having doubts and sincerely continue to search the truth even it is in contradiction to what you have belived so far. by the way turkish people can we get in touch in a specific forum subject here?

41
General Discussions / Re: Public vs. Private Sin in an Islamic State
« on: April 13, 2017, 02:37:58 PM »
Would you please then give some examples of quran encouraging idolators continue peacefully their practising of both worshipping idols and spread it to other people if they willingly choose it. How would you consider a muslim in an islamic society converting to idolatry and then go on as if nothing happened in his/her life. if you accept idolators peacefully spread their religion and practising worshipping idols in islamic society you must also be prepared the consequences of it some muslim born people may at the end turn to them. So would it be very ok with you?

thanks.

42
Women / Re: Love/being in love from quranic perspective
« on: April 11, 2017, 07:04:36 PM »
Hello there, Quran doesnt state natural orders such as continue to breath, dont forget to drink water, get enough sleep. These are naturally embedded in human behaviour. so love between men and women also a natural phenomenon which either way will find its way between different sexes. For such natural articles best advise is a general one i guess use your mind and heart =).

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General Discussions / Re: Public vs. Private Sin in an Islamic State
« on: April 11, 2017, 07:00:26 PM »
I dont think freedom of belief is protected by quran. Because idolators are scolded and asked to believe in one God or to leave the macca. That means islam is not allowing idolatry in society.  Throughout the history ,although it may seem wrong to you, in islamic states other beliefs' open propoganda is forbidden as i know.

44
Discussions / Re: Similarity between a Bible verse and a Hadith
« on: April 11, 2017, 06:53:55 PM »
hello ilker i sent you a private message did you receive it? if not please contact me from the following e-mail address: meraklikisi@yahoo.com

45
Discussions / Re: Did the people of the Book ever have 5 prayers ?
« on: March 16, 2017, 08:13:00 PM »
Zoroastrian or other name Mazdayasna was once official religion of Iran its followers also prayed 5 times a day. Ablution also was a requirement for them. It is a strange similarity.

1: havan gah (morning prayers)
2:rapitvin gah (from midday till 3 hours later)
3:uzirin(after rapitvin gah till dusk)
4:aewi serutrem gah(after sunset till mid night)
5:ushahin gah(from dawn till before sunrise )

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