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Messages - good logic

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Peace Hamzeh.

From my part ,I do not want to prolong this also, So I will make this last point amicably brother;
 Let me first quote you below:

"Christianity, Judaism, have a Scripture that they are commanded to judge with. If they do, they would be enjoining in a Islamic ruling or in more of a english terminology they are ruling by the system of God.hich is: ..."

Christianity, Judaism, Traditional Islam as far as Qoran is concerned were  made up religions. GOD has never authorized any of these religions. This is where the problem of religions arises. They are man made:

There is only one religion "Islam to GOD Alone". GOD in Qoran is inviting all humanity to follow this one simple and consistent religion . The diversity and different rules are not the issue, the issue is to accept GOD Alone as the only authority, follow the straight path to become a good soul. Anyone from any walk of life or religion can take up this "Islam to GOD, regardless of our man made religions , sectarism and racism.

Hope that clarifies for you this point.
Thank you for your replies.
GOD bless you.

Peace Hamzeh.
There is no argument from my part to this quote:

"The system of God does contain certain laws and duties that believers are required to undertake and implement which is found in Scripture. However there is no compulsion in religion/system and neither am I saying that a non-believer will not be going to heaven or have salvation or not."

However, a Muslim to GOD can be from any religion or from no religion. Only GOD knows the true inner most thoughts.
Noah and Abraham had different rules, different religions have different rules, GOD knows that  and that  is why there is a common system of the belief in one GOD and the following of the "straight path"-good deeds and good morals- in all the sects  and all humanity.
As far as I am concerned GOD makes this clear in Qoran. Since you say, quote:

"I was just making it clear that the system of God (Islam) should be recognized through the Scriptures He has sent to us and its different than other religions/systems. Because you said that Islam can be found in any religion or people with no religion at all. I don't agree with that."

Then GOD has answered both of us here:

Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in God and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
إِنَّ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَالَّذينَ هادوا وَالصّٰبِـٔونَ وَالنَّصٰرىٰ مَن ءامَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَاليَومِ الـٔاخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صٰلِحًا فَلا خَوفٌ عَلَيهِم وَلا هُم يَحزَنونَ

And 22:17.
 So here is what I say to you brother;
You and I are not wakeel over people nor can we make assumptions that have no basis  on who can can be a true Muslim to GOD. Anyone who is peaceful and a good human is not the "enemy" why should we label "non believers" according to our faulty understanding?

Of course you are entitled to your views and understanding, but I make no difference between you and me as far as our disagreement is concerned, you are still my brother united in our beliefs in the One GOD.
Actually I am many congregations and sects, Or shall I say I have no sect. Our universal unity comes from the big factor:"GOD ALONE as authority, no idols"
All the sects and factions "GOD is the one who will judge among them on the day of Resurrection. GOD witnesses all things.”
Thank you for the conversation brother.
GOD bless you.

Peace Hamzeh.
You also ask this, quote:

"... I ask what about if one was to reject the Old and New Testaments and the Quran but still believes in a God but not the god of Abraham, not the God who has been sending down revelations and messengers with the same message, but does good deeds and has good morals and believes in a judgement day? Does this amount that one is following Islam?"

There are all sorts of permutations that we cannot possibly unravel unless we know the deep convictions and the inner thoughts of people.
So many disagree about interpretations  of all the three scriptures .which ones are rejecting parts of these scriptures if they have different interpretations about them?
For example you and I may disagree about the meaning of different verses in Qoran, If we both claim sincerity which one of us is rejecting the parts we disagree with if one of us is correct with the meaning? Or we can be both wrong,hence both of us are rejecting the right interpretation?
Brother ,I leave the judging of people to GOD Alone. why?
Because GOD says so:

It is not up to you; He may redeem them, or He may punish them for their transgressions.
لَيسَ لَكَ مِنَ الأَمرِ شَىءٌ أَو يَتوبَ عَلَيهِم أَو يُعَذِّبَهُم فَإِنَّهُم ظٰلِمونَ
To God belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. He forgives whomever He wills, and punishes whomever He wills. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
وَلِلَّهِ ما فِى السَّمٰوٰتِ وَما فِى الأَرضِ يَغفِرُ لِمَن يَشاءُ وَيُعَذِّبُ مَن يَشاءُ وَاللَّهُ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ

 GOD does not lie, those with the minimum criteria will be saved.

Rather I see this attributes of the righteous regarding all the people of the world:

You should eagerly race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the heavens and the earth; it awaits the righteous,
وَسارِعوا إِلىٰ مَغفِرَةٍ مِن رَبِّكُم وَجَنَّةٍ عَرضُهَا السَّمٰوٰتُ وَالأَرضُ أُعِدَّت لِلمُتَّقينَ
who give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. God loves the charitable.
الَّذينَ يُنفِقونَ فِى السَّرّاءِ وَالضَّرّاءِ وَالكٰظِمينَ الغَيظَ وَالعافينَ عَنِ النّاسِ وَاللَّهُ يُحِبُّ المُحسِنينَ
If they fall in sin or wrong their souls, they remember God and ask forgiveness for their sins - and who forgives the sins except God - and they do not persist in sins, knowingly.
وَالَّذينَ إِذا فَعَلوا فٰحِشَةً أَو ظَلَموا أَنفُسَهُم ذَكَرُوا اللَّهَ فَاستَغفَروا لِذُنوبِهِم وَمَن يَغفِرُ الذُّنوبَ إِلَّا اللَّهُ وَلَم يُصِرّوا عَلىٰ ما فَعَلوا وَهُم يَعلَمونَ
Their recompense is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. What a blessed reward for the workers!
أُولٰئِكَ جَزٰؤُهُم مَغفِرَةٌ مِن رَبِّهِم وَجَنّٰتٌ تَجرى مِن تَحتِهَا الأَنهٰرُ خٰلِدينَ فيها وَنِعمَ أَجرُ العٰمِلينَ

GOD bless you brother.

Peace Hamzeh.
Thank you for your inquiry brother.
Please clarify the following for me from Qoran, if possible, quote:

"Not to get into a debate but just want to point out that [Islam is a entity of it's own that requires a set of specific beliefs and commands from Scripture]"

As far as I know believing in Qoran requires a set of specific beliefs and commands , but one can be a Muslim to GOD if they are from other religions or not. The minimum requirement is:

Some have said, "No one will enter Paradise except Jews or Christians!" Such is their wishful thinking. Say, "Show us your proof, if you are right."
وَقالوا لَن يَدخُلَ الجَنَّةَ إِلّا مَن كانَ هودًا أَو نَصٰرىٰ تِلكَ أَمانِيُّهُم قُل هاتوا بُرهٰنَكُم إِن كُنتُم صٰدِقينَ
Indeed, those who submit themselves absolutely to God alone, while leading a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.*
بَلىٰ مَن أَسلَمَ وَجهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحسِنٌ فَلَهُ أَجرُهُ عِندَ رَبِّهِ وَلا خَوفٌ عَلَيهِم وَلا هُم يَحزَنونَ
 Submission to GOD is not the so called "Islam" religion of the Muslim Umma. It can be done by anyone anywhere from any religion or not.
GOD bless you.

Peace  Lobotomize94.

There is only one religion: (Islam to GOD not Islam the religion of the so called Muslims). Islam to GOD is a state of mind and can be found in all man s religions Judaism,Christianity, Traditional Islam,Hinduism...etc. It can even be found with people who have no religion.

So if one is  a christian or any religion is irrelevant as long as they:
-Believe in GOD.
-Believe they are accountable-A day of judgement-.
-Do good deeds and have good morals.
These are the minimum criteria to be saved according to Qoran.
GOD bless you.

Thank you Tausif Ahmed for your reply.

Brothers and sisters,
Since we are discussing this subject in here,Messengers , including the living messenger- Qoran- have a clear message for the humans:

"This is a message for all the people.
 For those who wish to go straight (yastaqeem in Arabic text, a verb derivative from STRAIGHT/MUSTAQEEM /Upright...).

 GOD is talking to all of us-humans-.
Once we come across the message of Qoran, it becomes apparent to "uoli Al Albab"- Those that choose to follow the message- that the straight path is the clear message(6:151-153) and:

The path of God, to whom belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Absolutely, all matters are controlled by God.

 God placed the instinct of right from wrong in our hearts before coming to earth. Humans are gifted with what would place them on the starting point of the STRAIGHT PATH-To be fair, to be  respectful to have the right attitude and conduct, be just...etc-. Once we decide to hit that point, we are promised to be blessed with all the guiding means from God to stay on it. The choice is always ours.
We, all humans, should reflect on this conditioned and honourable invitation from GOD ,our creator:

With it( Qoran s message), God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the path of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
And there lies the cause /aim of the message(From all the messengers of GOD). The majority of course have ignored or will ignore the message from the one who created us all and knows what is best for us.
GOD bless you all.

Peace TausifAhmed.

 Let me tackle a different angle about "messengers" to humans. What use has this been to the humans (except few!)?
Look at what is happening to the humans across the world!!!( May be except very few?!!!) ,here is a list(some of it at least):

- We have become selfish , desiring more money and materials of this world at the expense of human decency.
-we have zero moral standards about caring for the less privileged, we are divided and "racist/hateful" towards the other side(Whatever the other side is to the races , nations and tribes...)
- We accept and support leaders that admit lying to us and stealing wealth from the other side/nations..
- we do not care one iota about each other when it comes to competing about jobs, money status and are easily bought by the very rich and famous and "worship" their system.
-Our leaders pretend to do things in the name of democracy and human values, we know their game, we can clearly see the hypocrisy, but we turn a blind eye and suck up to them and their system of fake democracy!!!
-We support or ignore injustice towards others and oppression of others in the name of being more "civil " than them.
- ...I am sure most of you can add to this list....

What is happening to the majority of humans? How can we manage to sleep at night? Where is our compassion and good instinct gone?
Can messengers save the majority?
For those few that expect messengers ,here is the "living messenger of GOD":

يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ
O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture.

Yes indeed, Qoran is that living messenger. All past , present and future true messengers will only confirm Qoran.
Following Qoran is following all messengers of GOD.
May the lord wake us up and guide us!!!
GOD bless you.

Prophets and Messengers / Re: Need for new messengers- I'm not so sure
« on: April 24, 2018, 10:42:58 PM »
Peace Naeem Xapha.
Once we accept Qoran, it becomes our live" messenger".

Accepting human messengers is irrelevant because the criteria is in Qoran ,the warning is in Qoran ,their message is in Qoran, ...If they are true, they will only direct us to Qoran. Nothing but Qoran s message.

The prophet warned by "Qoran- Li undhirakum Bihi Wa Man Balagh-" his generation and Qoran is here to warn all coming generations.

Coming messengers is no big deal, we are responsible to check all information given by anyone with Qoran.

Following Qoran is following all true messengers past ,present and future.
GOD bless you.

Peace miracle114.
 In Surah Al Anbiaa and surah Meriam,GOD clearly gives an indication that all the prophets mentioned in the surahs are honoured in this world and in the hereafter.
19:58  summarises this:

These are some of the prophets whom God blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping.
أُولٰئِكَ الَّذينَ أَنعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيهِم مِنَ النَّبِيّـۧنَ مِن ذُرِّيَّةِ ءادَمَ وَمِمَّن حَمَلنا مَعَ نوحٍ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَإِسرٰءيلَ وَمِمَّن هَدَينا وَاجتَبَينا إِذا تُتلىٰ عَلَيهِم ءايٰتُ الرَّحمٰنِ خَرّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا

GOD bless you.

Peace miracle 114.

In my opinion any peaceful person, who does you no harm should not be called "a disbeliever":
-Wala Takulu Liman Alka Ilaykum Assalama Lasta Muminan Tabtaghuna ...-

Besides, GOD is the judge of people. -Alaika Albalagh Wa Alayna Al Hisab".

We should have enough on our plate to cleanse ourselves and worry only about our own neck.
Ataamuruna Al Naasa Bi Albirri Wa Tansawna Anfusakum Wa Antum Tatluna Al Kitab?

It is difficult indeed to concentrate on our own souls and leave GOD to be the Wakeel of His servants.
GOD bless you.

Women / Re: Women's issues.. Again
« on: November 12, 2017, 02:39:34 PM »
Peace Amira.
Thank you for entering the conversation and thank you for your offer of help to Sleepysoul.
I may agree that men in general cannot help with the topic of polygamy, that is why I have not attempted nor pretended that I have an answer. Read my posts again if you have any doubt please.

On the other hand, it will be interesting for us men, if you elaborate/explain your views to us/ your take as well here, I have requested this in my posts.
 Of course it is your choice, but I for one will be grateful.

As far as what Qoran says about this and other topics, who can help better than the Author. GOD Alone.
Thanks once again and GOD bless you.

Women / Re: Women's issues.. Again
« on: November 11, 2017, 10:46:17 PM »
Thank you for your post brother Hamzeh.
Like I said to you, me, you or any other man speaking on this subject will not do it justice.
Yes we can give our views but we are not the ones sharing the husbands.

However if one seeks the message of Qoran, knowing that GOD addresses all types of people in it, one needs to follow the best path instructed in it- Ittabiu Ahsana Ma Unzila Ilayikum Min Rabbikum-
Is not the best path to marry one "Wahidatan" for fear of injustice?

Also thanks to all the other members for your views.
GOD bless you.

Women / Re: Women's issues.. Again
« on: November 11, 2017, 04:58:31 AM »
Brother Hamzeh, thank you for your post.
My post was mainly to say that as a man I cannot speak for how women feel
.I know some societies have oppressive traditions and some women have no choice but to go with the system.  May be they say what they do not feel?
 Personally I cannot see why would any man want to have more than one wife.
If one wants to help other unfortunate women ,then help them financially with sadaqua/zakat...Why marry more when you already have a wife and may be children? Is this right and fair for all concerned?
My view anyway.
It is only right to ask women for their views on polygamy.
Common ladies let us have your honest opinion on the subject. Would you like to share a husband?
GOD bless you.

Women / Re: Women's issues.. Again
« on: November 10, 2017, 05:49:25 AM »
Brother Hamzeh,had you been a woman and written that  last post of yours, I would have been shocked, nevertheless I would have accepted that some women are happy to share a husband .

You tried hard brother, but it is not convincing.
All a man can do, in such a topic, is speak for men.

I would like to hear from the ladies on how women feel about polygamous marriages, that will give us a truer picture.
 Bear in mind Qoran encourages one wife (You will not be able to remain just to more than one!) as far as I can understand.
GOD bless.

Women / Re: Women's issues.. Again
« on: November 07, 2017, 11:11:15 PM »
It is a "man s world"! Some prefer it that way.
Students of Qoran know to follow the "best path " in it:
1-Do to others...
2- One wife/husband to be just.No sex allowed with anyone else.
3-No  oppression.
4-Argue/encourage by what is best.
5-Rights for everyone,like you would want your rights.
6-Stand for what is fair and right as per GOD s best path.

The lady is right to question the religion of men.
Shall we just tell her to like it or lump it?
Or shall we expect her to adhere to 7th century ways?
Or shall we keep on following our old generations,grandfathers and fathers?

Lady,I have no excuses for you why the world of religion is the way it is. It seems unfair and oppressive.
All of us need to fight prejudice ,oppression against women,weak men and children.
The way things are in the religion does not look like "following the best path" instructed in Qoran.
Part of the solution needs to start at home by the fathers and the sons of this and future generations.
GOD bless.

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